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Author Topic: The Violin and Viola Thread  (Read 10741 times)
A
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« Reply #210 on: 09:00:41, 30-11-2007 »

You will just have to buy a Baroque violin then tommo !!! Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

A
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #211 on: 09:56:26, 30-11-2007 »

Hello fellow fiddlers Tommo and A -  thank you Tommo, for the info on Fullers.  If I read their site correctly, the Bärenreiter edition of the Telemann Fantasias is among the cheapest!  It's a pretty clean edition (Urtext, for what that's worth), and (if it hasn't changed in the past several years) has a priceless condescending introduction that concludes thus:  "The double stopping and chordal work can naturally only be tackled by a competent player."   Grin

Quote
You will just have to buy a Baroque violin then tommo !!!

Oh dear, what have I started!  But I certainly wouldn't argue against it...   Lips sealed
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #212 on: 10:34:59, 30-11-2007 »

This is required reading for every conductor.

Absolutely. Bearing in mind of course that it's of its time, place and context (he's presumably talking about solo music?)...  Cool
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richard barrett
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« Reply #213 on: 11:20:49, 30-11-2007 »

I don't remember whether it was here or at S&M that I mentioned I'd shared a concert last weekend with the Swedish violinist Anna Lindal. I'd heard a couple of recordings of hers before but never a concert. Her half of the concert consisted of these unaccompanied pieces:

HIF Biber - Passacaglia
Hans Otte - Stundenbuch nr.13
Johann Helmich Roman - Assaggio no.4 in C minor
Helmut Lachenmann - Toccatina

which is about as various as solo violin music gets, but came across as an intelligent musically-planned sequence. She used a "modern" violin and what looked like a pre-Tourte bow for everything - the Otte piece sounded entirely idiomatic with "baroque" articulation and hardly any vibrato, and the Lachenmann uses hardly any conventional techniques anyway. I was rather startled initially by the extent to which she achieved a "Baroque violin" sound in the Biber - and I was sitting in the front row so I heard every detail. I hadn't heard any of Roman's solo violin music before - I wouldn't want to claim it's as interesting as Bach or even Telemann, but I thought there was something quite individual and rewarding about it which the violinists among us might enjoy spending some time with. Apart from all of that, her playing and stage presence were completely captivating from start to finish and I almost completely forgot I had to play in the second half of the concert.
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A
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« Reply #214 on: 14:02:20, 30-11-2007 »

Hello fellow fiddlers Tommo and A -  thank you Tommo, for the info on Fullers.  If I read their site correctly, the Bärenreiter edition of the Telemann Fantasias is among the cheapest!  It's a pretty clean edition (Urtext, for what that's worth), and (if it hasn't changed in the past several years) has a priceless condescending introduction that concludes thus:  "The double stopping and chordal work can naturally only be tackled by a competent player."   Grin


I will pursue this strina, thanks.

I have just been looking at the Adagio movement of the 5th Bach accomp sonata, the double stops are more tricky in first position but possible ! Whilst trying the Adagio of the 4th sonata I found the trill on the G string ( 4th bar) hard to play in lower positions to avoid the squeaky shift on gut strings, I have decided that jumping onto 4th finger in second position is the only answer, but trilling with the 4th finger is a pain!!
I will get there, but I have to break all the rules I have learnt over the last ...... years .. !!

A
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #215 on: 21:55:28, 30-11-2007 »

I trill on the open D string in that bar myself...
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A
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« Reply #216 on: 22:47:35, 30-11-2007 »

I trill on the open D string in that bar myself...


I would never have thought of that... this is going to be a big learning curve of breaking rules strina!! I would have been marmalised for that at RAM !!

Thanks !! A
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #217 on: 17:25:35, 04-12-2007 »

Ho hum, procrastinating yet again.  Difficult to practise while the washing machine is running, of course.

Actually, quite a good project has landed on my plate.  I know it's one of the most derided, overplayed, love-to-hate-it-despite-loving-it pieces of music around, but I've never played the Four Seasons before.  I'm quite excited about having a chance to do it.  I just hope the British weather hasn't dulled my ability to evoke contrasts between spring/summer/autumn/winter, which are all virtually the same in these isles...

So I'm leaping to it like a salmon.  As soon as the washing machine stops.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #218 on: 17:35:08, 04-12-2007 »

contrasts between spring/summer/autumn/winter, which are all virtually the same in these isles...

Another way of looking at it is they all happen almost every day - what better situation in which to think about the Vivaldi? Seriously, though, I think those pieces are actually pretty good (if not on the level of invention of op.3) if you can try to push their stultifying omnipresence away... are you playing the solo part?
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #219 on: 18:13:08, 04-12-2007 »


...From a great violinist via a non-violinist(!)...

Quote
One of the principal Beauties of the Violin is the swelling or increasing and softening of the Sound; which is done by pressing the Bow upon the Strings with the Fore-finger more or less. In playing all long Notes the Sound should be begun soft, and gradually swelled till the Middle, and from thence gradually softened till the End. And lastly, particular Care must be taken to draw the Bow smooth from one End to the other without any Interruption or stopping in the Middle. For on this principally, and keeping it always parallel with the Bridge, and by pressing it only with the Fore-finger upon the Strings with Discretion, depends the fine Tone of the Instrument.

Geminiani (1761)

So we infer that (for Geminiani) all long notes swell and then fade. Also he tells us that the "fine tone" of the instrument results principally from correct bowing (and, presumably, therefore not from other tricks of the LH - e.g. vibrato?).

Baz

This is required reading for every conductor.

Absolutely. Bearing in mind of course that it's of its time, place and context (he's presumably talking about solo music?)...  Cool

This explanation of messa di voce, and similar ones in other treatises for both voice and instruments, has led to much debate.  Geminiani didn't say where the messa di voce should be applied - he was merely elaborating on how to create a beautiful sound on the violin in the course of explaining how to play the violin generally.  And in not specifying what exactly he meant by a "long note," he's left us with a very grey area.

Vocally, the messa di voce seems to have been used almost as a cadenza - a moment when the music is suspended so the singer can sit on a single note and spin out a controlled crescendo-diminuendo meant to captivate the audience.  But if you apply messa di voce in the course of the music every time you see a note a minim or longer, you can get a horrible bulging sea-sick effect.

You can also inadvertently work against the harmonic interest.  Imagine you have 1st and 2nd violins playing a chain of suspensions, offset against each other.  Say the 2nds create the resolution when their note changes, the 1sts create the clash when they change.  If both sections do a messa di voce on each note, the tension created when the 1sts change will be completely lost.  If the 2nds do some messa di voce on each note, while the 1sts give each note a strong front, the clashes will be pleasingly emphasised.

Many players now interpret Geminiani's words to mean that one should avoid clicking, crunching or accenting every bow change; take care over how notes are started and finished; and pay attention to how a note ought to be "shaped" in its harmonic context.  His own examples later in the book, where he has a little "crescendo" sign over every crotchet in a series of eight or more, seems to imply this.  Sometimes the "shape" of a true messa di voce works well, but ought to be used sparingly.  Sometimes it makes more sense to crescendo throughout, to diminuendo throughout, or even to do the opposite of a messa di voce (dim then cresc - this is often very effective on pedal points).

**********
just saw richard barrett's post - yes, I'll be playing the solo part.  Not sure I can push their stultifying omnipresence away, though, seeing as I'll be doing them in St Martin in the Fields, where they seem to get an outing at least twice a week...  But I'm trying to see that as an extra challenge to make them exciting and fresh.  Roll Eyes  And I do know that Pachelbel's Canon will not form part of the programme.  (Maybe we should do the grossly neglected Gigue as an encore, if required?)  I'll let everyone know about it closer to the date (not for a few months yet).

hmm, the washing machine seems to have stopped...
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martle
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« Reply #220 on: 19:05:28, 04-12-2007 »

yes, I'll be playing the solo part.  Not sure I can push their stultifying omnipresence away, though, seeing as I'll be doing them in St Martin in the Fields, where they seem to get an outing at least twice a week... 

Strina, let us know when. You might get some audience out of this board!  Smiley
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Green. Always green.
thompson1780
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« Reply #221 on: 00:55:38, 06-12-2007 »

I'd definitely like to come.

I've only performed Spring and Summer as soloist.  It was good fun learning them, largely because of deciding what to do in the slow movements.  I suspect HIP enthusiasts would not like it (I know very little about performance at Vivaldi's time that would mean I had created something historically performed, so the only chance that my ornamentations are HIP would be if there was some latent talent that spawned it, which I doubt), but I'm very fond of my ornamentation for the slow movement of summer, which adds embellishment to each successive phrase, and ends up with a ridiculously ornate passage just before the final presto.

I'm sure you will be a good deal more tasteful, strina Cheesy  Have fun creating  / experimenting / living teh moment and seeing where your fantasy takes you.

Tommo
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Baz
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« Reply #222 on: 21:04:51, 06-12-2007 »


hmm, the washing machine seems to have stopped...


Well strina - I suggest you teach it the finer skills of messa di voce (for all your splendid comments upon which I thank you).

Baz Smiley
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A
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« Reply #223 on: 01:01:34, 10-12-2007 »

 Will certainly come and see-hear the Vivaldi, strina, do tell us as soon as you know the date .... please  Grin

A
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #224 on: 10:12:45, 14-12-2007 »

What will the "next violin" look, sound and play like?

A provocative article in the New York Times about how instrument-makers are "moving on" with the ideas of C17th makers...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09nextviolin.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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