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Author Topic: The piano thread  (Read 7941 times)
John W
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« Reply #165 on: 09:51:00, 22-05-2007 »


[Mod note: selected Piano Thread messages have been merged into the Alkan thread, in the Classical/Romantic section]
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increpatio
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« Reply #166 on: 17:53:46, 22-05-2007 »

Ornstein's a big enthusiasm of mine - Jonathan Powell came and played some at the college at which I teach (along with with Ives, Obukhov, Lourie, Nancarrow, Scriabin + Protopopov - what a programme !) the other day. I've never heard Ornstein's playing however - what's it like ?

HIs son's website contains almost all of his musical scores and a big pile of recordings of Ornstein (and others) playing his own works, improvising, and composing; it makes for very good listening (especially as most of his works are not available recorded yet).  I prefer Hamelin's rendition of suicide in an airplane, though ;P

http://www.poonhill.com/
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #167 on: 21:48:53, 25-05-2007 »

I decided that I should at least try pieces that I wanted to play and thought I couldn't.j
I played many already. Now I am thinking about Schumann Toccata. I have been looking at it a little at a time for the last few weeks.
It is very difficult and I have my doubt if I will be able to play it.
Did anyone played this piece? Can anyone give me advice or any suggestion about this piece? May be I will decide not to bother with it. But for now I really have something for this piece and love it very much. I heard Horowitz playing it.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #168 on: 22:21:01, 25-05-2007 »

I decided that I should at least try pieces that I wanted to play and thought I couldn't.j
I played many already. Now I am thinking about Schumann Toccata. I have been looking at it a little at a time for the last few weeks.
It is very difficult and I have my doubt if I will be able to play it.
Did anyone played this piece? Can anyone give me advice or any suggestion about this piece?

Yes. It's a wonderful piece, well worth playing. Below are some of the harder sections with some suggestions concerning use of the wrist - down arrow signifies a low wrist, up arrow a high one. If the opening section (and other comparable passages) are practised in this up-down way, when speeding them up then turn into a type of in-out motion instead, and the passage can be played at high speed.



Very few people attempt to make clear the notated voicing in the passage just after the second fragment above. Also the contrasts between pp and ff later on are very important (this is the sort of writing that anticipates such pieces as Wolfgang Rihm's Klavierstuck VII). And the beamings as the piece in the later stages (continually stressing the off beats, usually in two note groups) should be brought out - Schumann plays with the listener's sense of where the beat is (as he also does for extended passages in the Humoreske - this strategy can be found in Beethoven as well, for example in the last movement of the Piano Concerto No. 2, where the first bar gives a false idea of where the downbeats are (provided one plays the sforzandi, which many do not), which is 'corrected' by the next bar).
« Last Edit: 22:25:30, 25-05-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #169 on: 22:25:48, 25-05-2007 »

Thank you Ian, that makes sense to me.
I am going to try. I just love it so much.

I have a student that is in love now and hi wants to play Liebestraum by Liszt.
He used to love Lang Lang while I had some reservations. Now he sent me this link and he prefers Rubinstein. (there is Lang Lang there too for those who want to compare).
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEhPkDrtE1M
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #170 on: 22:34:22, 25-05-2007 »

I have a student that is in love now and hi wants to play Liebestraum by Liszt.
The second of the Liebesträume is one of the most intensely sexually charged works I know. Just try playing the passage below to see what musical passion can be. And tell your student to play it to the woman (or man) that he loves! I think (s)he will be taken by it....



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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
eruanto
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« Reply #171 on: 22:39:34, 25-05-2007 »

and for when (if) it all goes pear-shaped for 'im, i recommend he should play Schubert / Liszt Der Doppelgänger.

not meaning to sound pessimistic or anything...
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #172 on: 22:42:09, 25-05-2007 »

He could also try playing this piece (from Grieg's Op. 42 Lyric Pieces) as part of a seduction strategy:



(somehow that final cadence makes me think of Grieg saying 'How about a cup of char now then, luv?')
« Last Edit: 22:45:09, 25-05-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
trained-pianist
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« Reply #173 on: 22:45:57, 25-05-2007 »

Thank you Ian. I am not sure I have this Grieg. I remember seeing the piece somewhere, but I don't think I played it.
I am going to try it to look for Grieg and play example from Liszt now. The student's taste is conventional and he wants to play no III in A flat major. But I am going to look at your example. I have the whole book with Consolations and Lieverstraume.
Thank you so  much. In my mind you know everything.

With regard to repeated notes (when they are under a slur and the second on the strong beat) the wrist usually goes up down (on the down beat). I like your arrows in Schumann.

I am going to look at Bowen 24 Preludes shortly. Do you know them? I never even heard about the composer.
Any other pieces for people in love?
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #174 on: 23:00:33, 25-05-2007 »

Any other pieces for people in love?

Love can involve pain as well - do tell him that. If he doesn't believe you, tell him to play this most tragic of all songs of Schubert.



(this was a song I came back to again and again during a period of love (on both parts) for someone who was too far away for anything to be possible - An die Ferne Geliebte might also have been appropriate!)
« Last Edit: 23:02:52, 25-05-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
eruanto
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« Reply #175 on: 23:11:03, 25-05-2007 »

apologies for mentioning the vondracek concert again, but the encore he played was by Suk (i think that was it) and called Song of Love. may be mistaken - was in the back row at the time.

and as for love and pain Dichterliebe as a whole is a good melancholy source (and very bootiful too).

this most tragic of all songs of Schubert.

i must take exception to this, i'm afraid, Ian. Compared to Der Doppelgänger (yes, i love it) the intensity of feeling is negligible, imo. in DD there's just absolutely no let-up to the emotion (if anything it gets progressively more and more potent). Of course Schubert is renowned for using major keys for somewhat unusual atmospheres (Das Wirtshaus is another example) but sadly Tränenregen doesn't do it for me.

but perhaps we're looking for different outcomes here.
« Last Edit: 23:12:39, 25-05-2007 by eruanto » Logged
trained-pianist
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« Reply #176 on: 23:16:41, 25-05-2007 »

Did you like this piece by Suk (Song of love?). This is for eruanto.
I have violinist who is looking for not too difficult pieces to play. Whould you recommend this one?

I think this love  is not very possible for my student. He is 43 and she is 19 in search of easier life (I think). He has a daughter of 16 with ex-wife.
I like him because he is passionate about music and especially about playing piano. But he also likes the fair half of the population very much. Mr TP nearly got in trouble the other day in Aldi. He thought it was the other girl-friend and almost called her name, but then decided not to say.
One just has to pretend one doesn't see much (my eyes never were strong).
I don't know what will happen but for now he is in love.

May be there is an arrangement of this Schubert song? Or it has to be done. May be I should ask my friend to arrange it if I get the music. (Another stupid project I suppose).
« Last Edit: 23:20:36, 25-05-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
Ian Pace
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« Reply #177 on: 23:19:26, 25-05-2007 »

i must take exception to this, i'm afraid, Ian. Compared to Der Doppelgänger (yes, i love it) the intensity of feeling is negligible, imo. in DD there's just absolutely no let-up to the emotion (if anything it gets progressively more and more potent). Of course Schubert is renowned for using major keys for somewhat unusual atmospheres (Das Wirtshaus is another example) but sadly Tränenregen doesn't do it for me.

Fair enough! For me the most tragic of Schubert's music offers a sense of hope, then dashes it (for that reason I find Die schöne Müllerin a more tragic cycle than Winterreise). Tränenregen does this as powerfully as any other song for me - Schubert makes us aware at this point of the doomed plight of the young miller, without him himself being aware of it. Incredibly painful music.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
eruanto
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« Reply #178 on: 23:22:33, 25-05-2007 »

Did you like this piece by Suk (Song of love?).

Well yes it was ok, although by that stage of the evening i felt that th'yoong gentleman had rather outstayed his welcome (he only just came on again in time for the applause to still be going.) But yes it was passionate enough.

Quote
I have violinist who is looking for not too difficult pieces to play. Whould you recommend this one?

it's a deceptive one, but certainly not for "second study" pianists. it started off quite simply, but then it got rather virtuosic and involved in the middle.
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increpatio
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« Reply #179 on: 23:28:06, 25-05-2007 »

Oh; I like this particular turn.  I can't imagine Scriabin would produce a good impression at the early stages of a romance; I do quite like that Liszt though Ian; it's quite sexy indeed.  What other good seduction sex-pieces are there in ye're opinions?...wait...typo...i meant to say set-pieces.  *cough*.

I know people who swear by Debussy's Reverie or Rach stuff especially, but I rather think I could adopt some Medtner or Bowen, maybe one of his preludes, now that I think of it.  Hmm.

"Darling, let me show you my Opus Clavicembalisticum, it's rather lengthy."

Feel like breaking into "Have some Madeira m'dear" now...
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