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time_is_now
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« Reply #30 on: 18:20:10, 22-07-2007 » |
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Benjamin's investigation of the aura is hampered, and far from truly dialectical, by his clear fascination with the phenomenon. Perversely, this enables his work to become amenable both to those looking to celebrate the traditional aura of the commodity (as his critique lacks incision) and on the other hand those who wish to celebrate the de-individualisation of art as the result of capitalist mass production. Indeed, although (possibly unlike you?) I'm not 100% sure I regard that as a bad thing. It's a very fair assessment, nonetheless, IMHO, and I think you're also spot on in implying that the tension existed already within Benjamin's own work, which is why although Benjamin's essay on mechanical reproduction is characterised by his positive valorisation of that contemporary work that is free of aura his essay 'On some motifs in Baudelaire', for instance, seems to hold a rather more sympathetic view of auratic art. (Although one might also take the view that he was indeed observing a historical dialectic and that what really bothered him in tWAitAoiMR was not the aura as such but the C20th attempt to 'fake' it in the service of aestheticised fascism.) We would recommend to the good members to also try the much less known work of Siegfried Kracauer, which overlaps with that of Benjamin in various respects.
An excellent recommendation, even if (as in my case) it doesn't ultimately stop the good members from remaining sympathetic to Benjamin's attempt to square the circle. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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SimonSagt!
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« Reply #31 on: 19:39:49, 22-07-2007 » |
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"... I am setting out in the first place to write seventh-rate music [...] so it's debatable whether this could be classed as failure."
You are too modest, Mr Barrett. From what I hear, you have been outstandingly successful. |
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The Emperor suspected they were right. But he dared not stop and so on he walked, more proudly than ever. And his courtiers behind him held high the train... that wasn't there at all.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #32 on: 20:00:14, 22-07-2007 » |
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What do you imagine (rightly or wröngly) that Scötländers call it; tossing the cäber?
Speaking of which, oh look, it's dear old Simon. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #33 on: 21:02:37, 22-07-2007 » |
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Upon hearing the Finlandia piece by Sibelius on the radio this morning, I was most forcibly struck by his disturbing failure of judgement in quoting directly from Mr Andrew LLoyd Webber's light opera Evita, the ditty 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina'; a most inapt application to a northern scene.
Signor da Jazbo makes an important point here. That enchanting song has been plundered by several well-known composers for want of inspiration of their own, not only the Swede Sibelius but also Johannes Brahms of Hamburg in the finale of his Violin Concerto, and it never ceases to amaze us how often fragments, one might almost say bleeding chunklets, of the first-rate compositional work of Sir Andrew are taken out of context and placed completely inappropriately in so-called classical pieces!!! One begins to wonder why we have copyright laws at all! |
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martle
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« Reply #34 on: 22:33:34, 22-07-2007 » |
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the Swede Sibelius  And it's not just Sir Andrew who has been calumnied  . Poor John Williams had to suffer the indignity of being ripped off from his score to Superman II by the upstart Richard Strauss in his 'love' theme (hih!) in Ein Heldenleben some hundred years earlier! Outageous! |
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Green. Always green.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #35 on: 23:08:46, 22-07-2007 » |
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We're genuinely confused here: now we appreciate we may not know this song particularly well, having only stood three down from Eva on that blessed balcony at the Casa Rosada for 500+ performances in the original production, but we're having great difficulty in seeing any thematic links between it and the mighty Finn's anthem at all.
We're aware that the verse contains chordal progressions very similar to the Bach Prelude subsequently elaborated upon by Gounod for the Ave Maria, and we've even wondered whether the two chords that form the rabble's repeated cries of "Peron, Peron..." were in some fashion related to the similarly repeated piano chords in the Martinu Flute Sonata and moreover that the percussion ostinato which covered certain scene changes in the original production were distant cousins of Shostakovich's 4th and 15th symphonies plus the 2nd Cello Concerto, but Finlandia? How could we possibly have missed that? Chapter and verse, please.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #36 on: 01:56:12, 23-07-2007 » |
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Here are three of our own examples of disturbing failures of composers' judgement (note the singular):
1) the Turkish music in the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth.
2) all those Viennese "street songs" scattered around Mahler's nine and a half symphonies; how vulgar and unnecessary they always sound! The composer should have kept things of that kind in the privacy of his own study.
3) at the climax of the Enigma Variations, the music goes quiet far too soon; we are left yearning for just one more even more noble passage!
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« Last Edit: 02:25:31, 23-07-2007 by Sydney Grew »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #37 on: 08:24:31, 23-07-2007 » |
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chunklets
I believe the honourable Member may find that the technical term is 'cianchini'. |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #38 on: 09:28:00, 23-07-2007 » |
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3) at the climax of the Enigma Variations, the music goes quiet far too soon; we are left yearning for just one more even more noble passage!
I sometimes find this with Bruckner. After starting quietly and building up to a climax, he goes quiet again all too soon. I'm thinking of the first movement of the 9th in particular. As for Elgar, whenever the cello concerto is mentioned in trailers it's always the same few, literally a few, bars from the first movement that are played, lasting about 10 seconds. Does anyone wish they would continue a little longer? Some have tried to beef up composers' work. I didn't see the point of Stokowski's arrangement of Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, which was played at the beginning of In Tune last Friday (I think that was the day). It's dramatic enough without someone tarting it up. And in the 1920s Geoffry Toye and a couple of others tried to pump up Gilbert and Sullivan by adding more cymbal clashes and brass and those versions are often the ones that are still played today. |
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« Last Edit: 21:32:36, 23-07-2007 by Tony Watson »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #39 on: 09:55:30, 23-07-2007 » |
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I sometimes find this with Bruckner. After starting quietly and building up to a climax, he goes quiet again all too soon. I'm thinking of the first movement of the 9th in particular. There's something that's always bothered me about the first big climax in the 9th - not sure Tony if we're thinking about the exact same bit. It's not the going quiet but the actual arrival chord of D major that I have a tricky time with. (This is bar 75, 13th of C.) I think Giulini had a problem with it too - on his Vienna DG recording you'd be forgiven for not noticing the F# in the chord at all. (At least I hope you can be forgiven for it because it was the recording that I got to know the piece semi-properly from and until I heard a Jochum recording afterwards I didn't know the F# was there.) And, well, the 8th symphony. It just stops, doesn't it? I mean, in the middle of nowhere with this slightly lame rit. Does that bother anyone else? Seems a bit weder Fisch noch Fleisch after everything wonderful that's happened. |
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calum da jazbo
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« Reply #40 on: 21:29:44, 23-07-2007 » |
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Dear Ron Dough, can not give ch&v beyond noting the tune near the end that is in marked contrast to the preceding and subsequent excitements. cdj.
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It's just a matter of time before we're late.
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #41 on: 21:40:56, 23-07-2007 » |
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There's something that's always bothered me about the first big climax in the 9th - not sure Tony if we're thinking about the exact same bit. It's not the going quiet but the actual arrival chord of D major that I have a tricky time with. (This is bar 75, 13th of C.) I think Giulini had a problem with it too - on his Vienna DG recording you'd be forgiven for not noticing the F# in the chord at all. (At least I hope you can be forgiven for it because it was the recording that I got to know the piece semi-properly from and until I heard a Jochum recording afterwards I didn't know the F# was there.)
Erm... what F#? All I see in my score is a pile of D's. May I be forgiven for not noticing the F# in the score???  |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #42 on: 21:46:01, 23-07-2007 » |
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Er, horns 3&4, trumpets 2&3 ? I know it's only four of them but normally it ought to do the job...
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #43 on: 21:49:55, 23-07-2007 » |
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Er, horns 3&4, trumpets 2&3 ? I know it's only four of them but normally it ought to do the job...
Blimey. Bruckner Symphony #9, Mvmt. I, Bar 75, 13th of C, Tempo I (sehr breit), first bar of page 8 of the Kalmus mini-edition, and I got D's as far as the eye can see. Including horns 3 & 4, in F w/ a written A, and trumpets 2 & 3, in F w/ a written A as well. Color me confused. And procrastinatory beyond all reason. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #44 on: 23:27:59, 23-07-2007 » |
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 This be weird. IBG edition. Not great resolution but you should just be able to see the concert F#s. |
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