The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
04:46:41, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
Author Topic: So what is your definition of Music?  (Read 1060 times)
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #45 on: 09:01:52, 29-11-2007 »

Why thank you, Baz. 21st Century! Gosh! I'm more usually thought of as still struggling to fight my way out of the 18th century and into the new-fangled 19th.
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #46 on: 09:14:59, 29-11-2007 »

Why thank you, Baz. 21st Century! Gosh! I'm more usually thought of as still struggling to fight my way out of the 18th century and into the new-fangled 19th.

Now come on George! Don't let the b-----s get you down.

Baz  Wink
Logged
thompson1780
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3615



« Reply #47 on: 09:21:51, 29-11-2007 »

Very fair from inky, and Baz, that "What something is for" is perhaps an aspect of "What something is"  (or did you mean the other way round, inky?)

Another characteristic of music I wondered about, inspired by roslynmuse, is the aspect that there needs to be a shared experience.  Is that true?  Can I compose a piece of music for no one else but myself?  If I wrote it down an stuck it in a box marked "To be opened only by Tommo in 2020" would that count?  After all, the me now is a different person from the me in 2020 (I suspect, but how do I know?)"

And what about performer and audience distinction. I know from experience that performing is very different from just listening.  Can a performer be the audience too?

Tommo
Logged

Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
Baz
Guest
« Reply #48 on: 09:48:37, 29-11-2007 »

Very fair from inky, and Baz, that "What something is for" is perhaps an aspect of "What something is"  (or did you mean the other way round, inky?)

Another characteristic of music I wondered about, inspired by roslynmuse, is the aspect that there needs to be a shared experience.  Is that true?  Can I compose a piece of music for no one else but myself?  If I wrote it down an stuck it in a box marked "To be opened only by Tommo in 2020" would that count?  After all, the me now is a different person from the me in 2020 (I suspect, but how do I know?)"

And what about performer and audience distinction. I know from experience that performing is very different from just listening.  Can a performer be the audience too?

Tommo

Many interesting ideas there Tommo. In particular your "time capsule" notion is very apt. Indeed, that is how (I think) we should be thinking of any music - especially from the past - that is performed. Usually when one opens a real time capsule, one finds memorabilia that give an insight into the age and time of the contents. But how often is that done with musical performances?

The general run-of-the-mill "performance" of, say a Mozart or Beethoven symphony is still one that sees it as a more-or-less contemporary product - usually performed with a 19th-c technique but in a thoroughly 20th-c manner (and I am not, of course, thinking of so-called HIP attempts which, generally, have attempted to discover all the missing memorabilia (e.g. original instrumental techniques, source materials and so on) that inform a deeper understanding of such music).

Were you to place a composition into a time capsule, and mark it to be opened in 2020, would you have left any clues to those who might find it as to your intentions when composing it? Or do you think (as with many) that you would take a "do with it what you wish" view, leaving it essentially up to them?

Baz
Logged
thompson1780
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3615



« Reply #49 on: 10:14:12, 29-11-2007 »

If I were leaving it for others, I feel I would give as much guidance as possible for others, as I am somewhat of a control freak.  However, the purpose of my precision would be primarily to ensure (?) the correct emotions of the work were conveyed.  (or how I would feel?)

But my time capsule was specifically an example for involving no one other than me.  Would that still be music?

Tommo
Logged

Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #50 on: 10:31:41, 29-11-2007 »

Tommo; if your hypothetical music were conceived as music and notated as such, then yes, even whilst lying dormant until 2020, it would still be music. And should anything (heaven forfend!) prevent you opening it in 2020, then provided it was legible and could be perfomed by others it would obviously still be music.

What of the music that I hear in my head (whether I wrestle it onto manuscript paper or not): even though it has no physical audience nor expression, is not notated or recorded in anyway other than existing as electrical impulses crossing synapses, yet to me it is as real (and sometimes more possessive) as anything that I hear in 'the real world'. Does the fact that it is music to me alone divorce it from the definition?
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #51 on: 10:39:25, 29-11-2007 »

If I were leaving it for others, I feel I would give as much guidance as possible for others, as I am somewhat of a control freak.  However, the purpose of my precision would be primarily to ensure (?) the correct emotions of the work were conveyed.  (or how I would feel?)

But my time capsule was specifically an example for involving no one other than me.  Would that still be music?

Tommo

Isn't "music" (like other arts) merely a means of communication and interchange of tangible artistic ideas that provides a fulfilling and meaningful sensual and intellectual experience (in this case through ear and mind)?

What is more to the point is this: exactly WHO has ownership of it? There are many works performed that are intentionally so experimental and challenging that their identities as such only germinate during a one-off performance (quite different on each occasion). Rarely do such works appear on a programme without the composer's name attached, but they seem intended to remain "shared" intellectual property. This is sometimes confusing in that it makes any "intentionality" obscure (which is probably somewhat paradoxically the intention!).

Perhaps, here, what we should be exploring is not "what is music?" so much as "what is artistic exchange?".

Baz
Logged
thompson1780
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3615



« Reply #52 on: 11:21:20, 29-11-2007 »

Oh, and George or tin - can you fill me in on Ramsgate? I remember custard, oh so well...

HAPPY ROOM, reply 2834

Tommo
Logged

Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
roslynmuse
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1615



« Reply #53 on: 13:21:45, 29-11-2007 »

Oh, and George or tin - can you fill me in on Ramsgate? I remember custard, oh so well...

HAPPY ROOM, reply 2834

Tommo

Thanks, Tommo!

I also notice that I unconsciously quoted the opening line of the rejected first draft of Edward Thomas's famous railway poem (when it was more specifically about the catering facilities at the station than any nonsense about birds singing...)
Logged
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #54 on: 13:32:07, 29-11-2007 »

Oh, I remember Jane's last strop
Mainly because one afternoon
I wrote Elgar's Third Symphony,
Unwontedly. It was late June.
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #55 on: 13:47:22, 29-11-2007 »

Railway catering poem? IIRC...

Oh I remember old pork pie,
The taste, because one single spoon
Of meat the jellied mass congealed around
Revoltingly. It made me swoon.
« Last Edit: 13:51:29, 29-11-2007 by Ron Dough » Logged
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #56 on: 20:46:14, 29-11-2007 »

Can I compose a piece of music for no one else but myself?  .  


Can a performer be the audience too?

Tommo

There's a school of thought that accepts that Satie did that with Vexations.
Logged
Andy D
*****
Posts: 3061



« Reply #57 on: 21:19:28, 29-11-2007 »

What exactly the word "music" as a label applies to has to have a fairly big area of agreement, as with any label, for it to be of any use - ie the black area has to be large in the following:



The boundaries between the areas are not fixed and can fluctuate with time, as others have said earlier.

Dark blue area = A has heated argument with B & C  Wink

I'm not going to commit myself as to what lies within my circle. To come up with a "definition" of what the label applies to is probably not feasible, other than the trivial one that it's the word I apply to all things I regard as music at this particular time.
Logged
increpatio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2544


‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮


« Reply #58 on: 21:46:33, 29-11-2007 »

I'm not going to commit myself as to what lies within my circle. To come up with a "definition" of what the label applies to is probably not feasible, other than the trivial one that it's the word I apply to all things I regard as music at this particular time.
Even to figure out if 'music' fits as a description of any one given 'thing' I find quite difficult sometimes.

Have we a need for some fuzzy sets?
Logged

‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮
Andy D
*****
Posts: 3061



« Reply #59 on: 22:22:11, 29-11-2007 »

Your right incy, even at any one point in time each circle should probably look more like:

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
  Print  
 
Jump to: