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Author Topic: At Least Ninety-Six Crackpot Interpretations  (Read 11251 times)
Turfan Fragment
*****
Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #195 on: 17:35:17, 24-05-2008 »

Here is Bach's G sharp minor Prelude from Book I, to-day in a crackpot version (rapidshare or sendspace) but again a very relaxed and beautiful thing. It is written in three parts, with the principal exception of the final cadence where a fourth enters, somewhat along the lines of the solemnest moments of Beethoven's Missa.
What is like Beethoven? The relaxed beauty? The three-part writing? The principal exception at the cadence?
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #196 on: 00:55:17, 25-05-2008 »

Here is Bach's G sharp minor Prelude from Book I, to-day in a crackpot version (rapidshare or sendspace) but again a very relaxed and beautiful thing. It is written in three parts, with the principal exception of the final cadence where a fourth enters, somewhat along the lines of the solemnest moments of Beethoven's Missa.
What is like Beethoven? The relaxed beauty? The three-part writing? The principal exception at the cadence?

Few moments in all music can be sublimer than this entry of the fourth voice at the very end of the work. It comes to us down the centuries as the essence of inspiration, as divine intervention, as a blessing does not it? "Music as Blessing" - what a capital idea for a new thread! Regrettably there are we suspect too few devout or even serious members to support it over the "long haul."
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #197 on: 11:10:12, 25-05-2008 »

Here (rapidshare or sendspace) fully crackpotterised is Bach's fine Fugue in G sharp minor from Book I. Tovey calls it "one of the profoundest in the whole Forty-eight," and confirms - what we had already noted - the "remarkable episode 1" which first appears in bars eight to nine but informs and characterises the entire work. The detached chords of this episode, he adds, "are a remarkable exception to the rule that Bach uses them chiefly at climaxes." We ourself are especially fond also of bars thirty-two and thirty-three because of the extreme complexity of the four-part counterpoint there generated.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #198 on: 11:14:42, 26-05-2008 »

To-day's Prelude (rapid-share and send-space) - the one in A flat major from Book II - is another example of Bach's quirky late manner in two parts; there are plenty of fanfares but no melody to speak of. We can only speculate about its history, but we wonder whether one of the several sons had a hand in it.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #199 on: 09:21:02, 27-05-2008 »

To-day lots more descending chromaticals! Tovey calls this four-part fugue (in A flat major, from Book II, rapidshare and sendspace) "one of the greatest in the forty-eight"; and indeed it is, although Members might remember that we already two messages ago had one he called "one of the profoundest in the whole Forty-eight," and to-day's is pretty profound as well. What do the members think on that point? Perhaps the talented Mr. Baziron will rouse himself to a version organic or electronic, even; we would like to hear what he can do with this one!
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Baz
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« Reply #200 on: 14:58:07, 27-05-2008 »

To-day lots more descending chromaticals! Tovey calls this four-part fugue (in A flat major, from Book II, rapidshare and sendspace) "one of the greatest in the forty-eight"; and indeed it is, although Members might remember that we already two messages ago had one he called "one of the profoundest in the whole Forty-eight," and to-day's is pretty profound as well. What do the members think on that point? Perhaps the talented Mr. Baziron will rouse himself to a version organic or electronic, even; we would like to hear what he can do with this one!


...Well, before that there is another little matter to clear up!...

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=3018.msg114052#msg114052
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #201 on: 09:16:41, 28-05-2008 »

Despite the "greatness" of yesterday's A flat major Fugue it is by no means perfect. That is to say, Bach made a small number of errors and the work is not without shortcomings in the form in which we have it. Let us list four of them:

1) The transitional passage in the second half of bar twenty-seven and bar twenty-eight - containing a figure that in fact recalls the point where the final, incomplete section of the Art of Fugue breaks off - has here the function of a mere "space filler"; probably it marks the join between an earlier version of the work and a section added later. It could be done better and should be re-worked.

2) On the first beat of bar forty we hear a C natural, but we long for a C flat! Bach was here finally over-stretching himself in his gropings upward was not he?

3) In bar forty-four there is no real harmonic progression; it is another "filler" we suppose but in simply "marking time" it falls well below Bach's usual pungent standard.

4) The dreaded "Scotch snap" makes its ugly appearance half-way through bar forty-eight. That alto passage would certainly profit from a re-write would it not!
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #202 on: 09:28:21, 28-05-2008 »

Here - at once loony and crackpot - is a version of something of Liszt. It comes we should think from the Peter-Pan land of Northern America, so it may well have been written by that man Reych foreign to us of course but about whom a number of members last week were inexplicably becoming so strangely excited.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #203 on: 10:27:39, 28-05-2008 »

We have already had the A flat G sharp minor Prelude from Book 2 - here it is again as a reminder - so to-day we present a crackpot version of its companion Fugue (rapidshare and sendspace). It is a very original work, full of rhythmic experimentation, and superior we find to later endeavours in the same vein by Chopin and Brahms, even! But there is something of Beethoven's quartets in it.
« Last Edit: 14:18:10, 28-05-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Baz
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« Reply #204 on: 10:35:44, 28-05-2008 »

Despite the "greatness" of yesterday's A flat major Fugue it is by no means perfect. That is to say, Bach made a small number of errors and the work is not without shortcomings in the form in which we have it. Let us list four of them:

Let us examine a few of these negative observations...

Quote
1) The transitional passage in the second half of bar twenty-seven and bar twenty-eight - containing a figure that in fact recalls the point where the final, incomplete section of the Art of Fugue breaks off - has here the function of a mere "space filler"; probably it marks the join between an earlier version of the work and a section added later. It could be done better and should be re-worked.

This does nothing more or less than was customary for Bach: having introduced a short codetta into the exposition (bar 5, before the entry of voice 4), which he then expands and contrapuntally develops a little shortly afterwards (bars 10 to 13, preceding the entry of the Subject in the bass voice), his normal strategy is then to take up this subsidiary idea (and its contrapuntal development) for further expansion during the main Episodes of the central part of the fugue. Now the first time this happens is your 'dreaded' bar 27, but he injects a further refinement at this point: added to what has already been earlier previewed, Bach now throws in a fragment of the opening figure of the Subject too! Again - I should have thought - we see here the workings of a mind that at every stage brings together differing fragments and ideas, but synthesizes them with great skill as part of the continuity and unfolding of yet another latent masterpiece ('latent' only because the piece is still at this point only progressing).

Quote
2) On the first beat of bar forty we hear a C natural, but we long for a C flat! Bach was here finally over-stretching himself in his gropings upward was not he?

I don't - I have to say - 'long for a C flat' here, What Bach provides, as he colourfully inflects the mode from Ab Major to Ab minor is a delightful upward scale using the 'melodic minor' (which at once provides the psychological link between the Major/Minor forms of Ab, while still being entirely melodic and dynamic).

Quote
3) In bar forty-four there is no real harmonic progression; it is another "filler" we suppose but in simply "marking time" it falls well below Bach's usual pungent standard.

I should ask you to listen more carefully to bar 44, because you have again failed to respond to Bach's subtle change of mode (as you did in the previous complaint) - and it is these changes of mode that make his music so interesting and expressive harmonically. So what does he do here?

Having decided, surely, that he wishes to build up block chords to approach and highlight (and indeed to dramatise) the closing section, he chooses a clever harmonic move, again via the 'tonic minor' mode, to approach a Neapolitan Sixth in bar 45. The harmonic logic - and tension - is articulated through this change of mode. (If you examine bar 44 you will see that far from having 'no real harmonic progression' this bar takes the music smoothly - using the chromatic idea that originated in the Countersubject - through the tonic minor to arrive in bar 45 at the startling and highly-charged harmony of the Neapolitan 6th).

Quote
4) The dreaded "Scotch snap" makes its ugly appearance half-way through bar forty-eight. That alto passage would certainly profit from a re-write would it not!

You really should not have these silly hang-ups Mr Grew! They get in the way of seeing what the composer is really up to. In this instance, by 'being annoyed' about the use of a 'Scotch snap' on beat 3, you have thereby failed to understand WHY it was used, and HOW it enhances the structure at that moment.

Inevitably, by having been 'annoyed' by the Alto movement on beat 3, you have failed (it seems) to notice that this is precisely where the final entry of the main theme is introduced in the 'Tenor' voice. The purpose of the 'Scotch snap' is only one of making the Alto voice at that moment move aside to clear the path for this Tenor theme. Furthermore, since this piece and its accompanying Prelude clearly (in my view) were written for the harpsichord (which should have been clear to anybody listening to the opening of the Prelude with its spread repeated chords) Bach has merely at this point introduced a spreading or 'arpeggiation' into the texture suitable entirely for the instrument itself. I do not hear your 'Scotch snap' as being of any actual rhythmic importance whatsoever.

I should say, on the basis of your enquiries, that you have made a 'good beginning' in understanding this fugue, but that perhaps you still have 'some way to go'. I feel sure, however, that eventually you will feel that the effort was entirely worthwhile.

Baz
« Last Edit: 10:38:08, 28-05-2008 by Baz » Logged
Baz
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« Reply #205 on: 11:42:52, 28-05-2008 »

We have already had the A flat minor Prelude from Book 2 - here it is again as a reminder - so to-day we present a crackpot version of its companion Fugue (rapidshare and sendspace). It is a very original work, full of rhythmic experimentation, and superior we find to later endeavours in the same vein by Chopin and Brahms, even! But there is something of Beethoven's quartets in it.


Mmm...

Two points: a) this pair of movements appears the key of G# Minor (5 sharps), and not Ab Minor (7 flats). b) This rendition of the fugue seems to have transposed the whole piece down a full octave.

I wonder whether Bach would have minded? 

Baz  Shocked
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #206 on: 13:55:13, 28-05-2008 »

We thank Mr. Baziron for his remarks, but regrettably we must agree to differ on the question of the Scotch snap.

Here members may hear Bach being murdered by a group of German loonies.
« Last Edit: 14:12:41, 28-05-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Baz
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« Reply #207 on: 16:05:11, 28-05-2008 »

We thank Mr. Baziron for his remarks, but regrettably we must agree to differ on the question of the Scotch snap.

I do not know whether Mr Grew knows (or has access to a recording) of Bach's organ setting of the chorale Vater unser im Himmelreich (BWV 682) from the Clavier Ubung Part 3? If he has, he will know that this is a rare work in which Bach makes a structural use of the so-called 'Scotch snap', creating some weird and wonderful harmonic effects. The fabric woven by these ongoing rhythms around a canonic cantus firmus creates a strange but beautiful affect I feel.

Baz
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #208 on: 10:15:46, 29-05-2008 »

We thank Mr. Baziron for his remarks, but regrettably we must agree to differ on the question of the Scotch snap.

I do not know whether Mr Grew knows (or has access to a recording) of Bach's organ setting of the chorale Vater unser im Himmelreich (BWV 682) from the Clavier Ubung Part 3? If he has, he will know that this is a rare work in which Bach makes a structural use of the so-called 'Scotch snap', creating some weird and wonderful harmonic effects. The fabric woven by these ongoing rhythms around a canonic cantus firmus creates a strange but beautiful affect I feel.

Yes Mr. Baziron not only do we know it but we also long ago did it. Here is the result - a marvellous piece and a freely admitted exception to our "anti-snap" rule.

Incidentally there are a couple of Chopin studies too - not his best! - which make much of the Scotch snap.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #209 on: 12:15:55, 29-05-2008 »

We have until now had crackpot-ear renderings of Bach in C, Bach in F, Bach in B flat, Bach in D sharp-cum-E flat, and Bach in G sharp-cum-A flat. It is almost time to modulate on to Bach in C sharp, another tricky key, but before we do so, we present to-day as usual a Chopin interlude. He is in his bath this time, playing the bass clarinet, with an oboeist in supporting rôle. (Rapidshare or sendspace.)

We would especially like to hear Mr. Sudden's opinion of this particular performance!
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