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John W
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« on: 19:50:38, 03-06-2008 » |
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The Imagine programme returns to BBC1 tonight, with a subject very close to to the heart of this forum Oliver Sacks: Tales Of Music And The Brain, BBC One, 3rd June 2008, 10.35pm Alan Yentob investigates the extraordinary impact music can have on the human brain, and meets some remarkable case studies from Dr Oliver Sacks's latest book. http://www.bbc.co.uk/imagine/ |
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thompson1780
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« Reply #1 on: 22:17:47, 03-06-2008 » |
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Thanks JW, I had forgotten this. Will go and watch in a mo.
Do you think we need to add Alan Yentob to the Ton Koopman Oliver Sacks separated at birth thread?
Ta
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #2 on: 00:09:12, 04-06-2008 » |
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I found this a quite fascinating programme, not least by the MRI scans on Alan Yentob whilst listening to three contasting pieces of music; it seemed to completely stun the neurologist, but I wasn't in the least surprised!
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #3 on: 00:44:23, 04-06-2008 » |
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Oliver Sacks: Tales Of Music And The Brain, BBC One, 3rd June 2008, 10.35pm When one thinks about it though, it is a faintly disgusting and very silly subject indeed. It is no more valuable than would be a study entitled "Tales of Music and the Bowels," and is just another indication of the lamentable confusion in the midst of which sensitive persons of the present age are obliged to live! What would be much more worthwhile, and closer to thoughtful Members' true interests, would surely be "Tales of Music and the Soul" would not it? |
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John W
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« Reply #4 on: 00:52:27, 04-06-2008 » |
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Yes IGI, I thought Yentob's brain was more interesting than the musical abilities of the lightening man or the blind jazz pianist (jazz discographies are full of blind jazz players). That neurologist has an interesting project to do now, well, I hope he IS doing it, and, for Sydney Grew, he may actually find our soul on that MRI machine  I discovered the powerful combination of R Strauss and Jessye Norman only last week, see Spinning Now thread, and was going to choose a moment to return to that cassette. But I wonder what music I would have chosen to take part in the experiment. |
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ahinton
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« Reply #5 on: 07:27:50, 04-06-2008 » |
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Oliver Sacks: Tales Of Music And The Brain, BBC One, 3rd June 2008, 10.35pm When one thinks about it though, it is a faintly disgusting and very silly subject indeed. It is no more valuable than would be a study entitled "Tales of Music and the Bowels," Slow movements and all? Really, Sir Sydney, would you have us believe that when composers get and work with ideas they have recourse to their bowels in order to do it? Whilst I will admit that the first ideas for my own third piano sonata came to me unbidden when in what Max Reger would infamously have called the smallest rom in my house, I assure you (if you really need assuring) that this particular part of my anatomy played no further part in the work's composition... |
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thompson1780
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« Reply #6 on: 09:16:33, 04-06-2008 » |
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That's what I like about these boards - but let's hope ahh's point on the origins of his 3rd sonata is not misinterpretted!
Having read the book, the most interesting thing for me about the program was the comparison between the impression of the musicians I got from the words of the book, and from the sounds and sights of the telly.
The blind autistic chap doesn't come over well in the book. On telly there is an odd feeling of something incredibly special but with something missing (connection?)
Perhaps my brain is wired in such a way to respond to music emotionally and intuitively (?) but not to respond to words that way.
Do any of the members have similar reactions to words as they do to music? My mind immediately goes to tinners revelations on the poetry thread...
Tommo
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« Last Edit: 10:50:31, 04-06-2008 by thompson1780 »
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #7 on: 10:33:26, 04-06-2008 » |
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Members' true interests, would surely be "Tales of Music and the Soul" would not it?
Ah, but physicians and philosophers of the seventeenth century disputed long and hard over where in the body the Soul's seat was to be found - and did not (in the best interests of keeping book sales buoyant on all sides of the argument) reach any definitive conclusion. Sadly we live in an empirical age of beancounters, and matters relating to the soul are most unfashionable, in Britain at least - although in Russia this question is frequently discussed. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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mr improv
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« Reply #8 on: 12:16:35, 04-06-2008 » |
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what do you mean by soul?
the use of this word sounds like mystical quasi religious mumbo jumbo to me
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #9 on: 12:37:51, 04-06-2008 » |
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what do you mean by soul?
the use of this word sounds like mystical quasi religious mumbo jumbo to me The great Oxford English Dictionary (2001 edition), the ultimate repository of all meaning in the language, explains these terms thus: " soul (n): the principle of thought and action in man, commonly regarded as an entity distinct from the body; the spiritual part of man in contrast to the purely physical." " Mumbo Jumbo (n): a grotesque idol said to have been worshipped by certain tribes or associations of Negroes." There is a difference! For the twenty different meanings of "mystical" we suggest that Members undertake their own researches. |
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« Last Edit: 14:16:54, 04-06-2008 by Sydney Grew »
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Ruby2
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« Reply #10 on: 12:45:54, 04-06-2008 » |
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JohnW - I'm so glad you've posted this, I had somehow managed to miss the fact that the book had been published as well as the TV programme (I blame cleaning the kitchen. I hope they repeat it.) Reading the article you've linked to, it sounds structured in a very similar way to "The Man Who..." which I enjoyed very much. I'm surprised it doesn't mention the cases of people who hallucinate music though (although if he's sticking with 'reactions-to' rather than 'creation-of-from-nowhere'...) That's what I like about these boards - but let's hope ahh's point on the origins of his 3rd sonata is not misinterpretted!
Having read the book, the most interesting thing for me about the program was the comparison between the impression of the musicians I got from the words of the book, and from the sounds and sights of the telly.
The blind autistic chap doesn't come over well in the book. On telly there is an odd feeling of something incredibly special but with something missing (connection?)
Perhaps my brain is wired in such a way to respond to music emotionally and intuitively (?) but not to respond to words that way.
Do any of the members have similar reactions to words as they do to music? My mind immediately goes to tinners revelations on the poetry thread...
Tommo
Your last paragraph there grabbed my attention. In what sort of way? I tend to be grabbed by nice arrangements of words with regard to the sound patterns rather than the meaning. As a slightly silly example, when I was quite young I was very into butterflies and became obsessed with the sequence "small white, hedge brown" just because it felt like an almost circular phrase with a definite up and down - I would just say it over to myself in my head. We're not quite talking synaesthesia here, just the musicality of the words. Take this nonsensical phrase as well: "Quilly what a bolshevik in quintost". Nonsense but it sounds good. To me anyway.  I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at.  If it's not, please don't send the men in white coats... |
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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thompson1780
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« Reply #11 on: 13:28:20, 04-06-2008 » |
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Sorry R2, I wasn't quite clear enough. Let me try again.
In the programme, Alan Yentob had a strong reaction to one of Strauss's 4 last songs. The brain scan showed his brain was flooded with blood and excited all over. I don't know what happens inside my own brain or if it is similar to Mr Yentob, but I do get an all encompassing, totally enlivened feeling when listening to some pieces of music.
However, I don't get that with words alone - whether that be 'musical words' like you suggest, or poetry, or great novels, or.... I just experience words as a more intellectual thing than music.
But I am aware that some people get very strong reactions to the written or spoken word - especially poetry.
I'm really interested in how those people react to music and if the strong reaction to words is related to the strong reaction to music.
Thanks
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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A
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« Reply #12 on: 13:44:22, 04-06-2008 » |
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I have to say that words rarely 'grab me' as much as music, even in a musical setting. For example I can enjoy , and love some Schubert lieder but what they are actually saying is not of much importance to me, I love the combination of the sounds. I think in a way that is why I prefer to liste no music with words in a different language so I 'can't' understand them but just enjoy the voice as an instrument I suppose !
Is that what you meant tommo ? or were you referring to poetry alone.. I can enjoy that too but on a very different level.
A
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Well, there you are.
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mr improv
Posts: 80
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« Reply #13 on: 13:59:54, 04-06-2008 » |
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soul (n): the principle of thought and action in man, commonly regarded as an entity distinct from the body; the spiritual part of man in contrast to the purely physical.
how can you have thoughts and actions distinct from the body?
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Ruby2
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« Reply #14 on: 14:06:53, 04-06-2008 » |
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Sorry R2, I wasn't quite clear enough. Let me try again.
In the programme, Alan Yentob had a strong reaction to one of Strauss's 4 last songs. The brain scan showed his brain was flooded with blood and excited all over. I don't know what happens inside my own brain or if it is similar to Mr Yentob, but I do get an all encompassing, totally enlivened feeling when listening to some pieces of music.
However, I don't get that with words alone - whether that be 'musical words' like you suggest, or poetry, or great novels, or.... I just experience words as a more intellectual thing than music.
But I am aware that some people get very strong reactions to the written or spoken word - especially poetry.
I'm really interested in how those people react to music and if the strong reaction to words is related to the strong reaction to music.
Thanks
Tommo
Tommo - thanks for clarifying. I think they'd be tricky ones to compare (without brain scans!) as the stimuli are so completely different. From my own perspective there are poems which have the ability to stop me in my tracks, or to change my mood, or to make me cry, but then there is music that can do all 3 at once while giving me goose bumps as well. I'm not sure what it is about music that gives it the ability to go straight to the heart of our emotions like that. I suppose part of it may be about the amount of sensory stimuli coming in at the time. For example if I'm reading a poem, it's only in my head and there may be other distractions. If I hear it read out to me, then there are still distractions - I might be put off my the reader's voice or the fact that the emphasis on a certain word wasn't right for me. As well as that, we've got to interpret the words, and all of that is coloured by past experiences - every line could mean something different to every reader. Music on the other hand has a much more direct route and I may be wrong on this, I think it stimulates an older part of the brain without having to go through all the intellectual interpreting bits? Maybe that's a small part of why we respond so unreservedly. |
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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