The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
04:43:18, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Dido fan club  (Read 1334 times)
richard barrett
*****
Posts: 3123



« Reply #15 on: 18:05:35, 06-06-2008 »

what Richard says he doesn't like about Dido - that it goes by too quickly - is also a sort of strength.  Intensity of dramatic pacing and all that

I agree, really - within its externally-imposed limitations it works perfectly. I suppose I'm just hankering after more music, and indeed after the large-scale operas with proper libretti that Purcell never had the chance to write - imagine the Purcell of Come ye sons of art writing a full-length stage work on a classical or Shakespearean theme. Not in this universe though.  Sad

With your schedule, Ruth, I'm not surprised you can't slip in a spontaneous Dido! 

hm

Sorry, I won't be able to either, on account of having a PhD thesis to finish reading for an exam on Monday. I did go to a wedding in the Middle Temple once, it's a beautiful space and I can imagine perfect for such a thing.

Logged
autoharp
*****
Posts: 2778



« Reply #16 on: 19:00:44, 06-06-2008 »

Some years ago, I was assured (no doubt erroneously) that Dido's lament was de rigueur at weddings.
Logged
increpatio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2544


‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮


« Reply #17 on: 19:02:49, 06-06-2008 »

Some years ago, I was assured (no doubt erroneously) that Dido's lament was de rigueur at weddings.
Cheesy
Logged

‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮
Antheil
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 3206



« Reply #18 on: 19:14:08, 06-06-2008 »

I saw the title to this thread and thought it was Dido, Life to Rent!  But it seems it's Purcell.  Oh, I do love that 'Snakes dripping from her hair'  Not teribly au fait with Purcell is that from Indian Queen?
Logged

Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
MT Wessel
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 406



« Reply #19 on: 20:20:22, 06-06-2008 »

I saw the title to this thread and thought it was Dido, Life to Rent! .....
I know what you mean. I was initially attracted to the other place by a similar post (eno fans) and it serves them bloody well right as far as I'm concerned.  Sad
Logged

lignum crucis arbour scientiae
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #20 on: 21:32:05, 06-06-2008 »

I saw the title to this thread and thought it was Dido, Life to Rent!  But it seems it's Purcell.  Oh, I do love that 'Snakes dripping from her hair'  Not teribly au fait with Purcell is that from Indian Queen?
Sounds to me as though it's from Music for a While. (Till the snakes drop from her head, and the whip from out her hands.) Which in turn is from Oedipus, apparently.
Logged
richard barrett
*****
Posts: 3123



« Reply #21 on: 22:26:20, 06-06-2008 »

Which in turn is from Oedipus, apparently.
That's Dryden and Lee's Oedipus of 1678 - "Music for a while" is sung by a priest to conjure the shade of King Laius so he can be asked the identity of his murderer. There doesn't seem to have been a modern production.
Logged
strinasacchi
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 864


« Reply #22 on: 23:32:20, 06-06-2008 »

Quote
Funny that the one I'm doing now uses a similar idea of puppets, (although the singers themselves carry them in mine - stylised but simple and effective, I think - inspired by kabuki aesthetics)

Does this mean that you don't get to see Robin Blaze in drag (in the Hattie Jacques role) after all? 


 Grin No alas, that would have been entertaining!  No, he's in a purpley-blue kimono jacket, wide trousers and turban, carrying a towering bird-beaked wire-headed mirror-eyed evil-looking head on a tall stick, a large gnarled claw hand on another stick, all joined by lots of grey-white streamers swirling about.

Richard - I guessed what you really meant about Dido going by too quickly.  It is perfectly formed, but definitely leaves one wanting more and regretting the brevity of Purcell's life.  One does wonder how music in this country - and beyond - may have evolved had he lived and written longer.

Ooh, I'm going to be sad it'll be over tomorrow night.  There's some vague talk of reviving it next year, but who knows...
Logged
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #23 on: 01:39:17, 07-06-2008 »

Which in turn is from Oedipus, apparently.
That's Dryden and Lee's Oedipus of 1678 - "Music for a while" is sung by a priest to conjure the shade of King Laius so he can be asked the identity of his murderer. There doesn't seem to have been a modern production.

I think the snakes in THE INDIAN QUEEN are in a song sung by Envy:

What flatt'ring noise is this*?   
That makes my snakes all hiss?
I hate, I hate to see fond tongues advance
High as the Gods the slaves of chance


* a semichorus joins in on the words "this" and "hiss" only, to emphasise the awfulness of the rhyme.

Strina (and anyone else)...   the additional Purcell music for D&A isn't a secret, and it's in the score prepared by Thurston Dart for Novello (http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/07044/details.html) so it has been known for some considerable time.  The vocal score (and probably the full score) of that edition has some notes about the Masque music, and why Dart believed it belongs to Dido & Aeneas...  the arguments are extremely convincing.   It adds at least 20 minutes more music to the piece, and probably more if you do all the repeats in the dances etc.   But it is not only dances - there is recitative and a dialogue amongst the Gods about the imperfections of human behaviour (ie rather like the prologue to L'INCORONAZIONE DI POPPEA in that sense).  As usual I don't have my score with me,  but I seem to remember that it's been put together from a set of incomplete orchestral parts, and that 1-2 of them are missing in places (the viola and maybe vln-2 as well?).

I would like to see a production of D&A in which Dido is black (as she properly should be as a Carthaginian princess) - this element of love breaking the cultural barriers is a theme which Purcell dealt with several times.  He appears to have known Aphra Behn, and the well-known music for ABDELAZAR is for one of her plays... fully it's ABDELAZAR or THE MOOR'S REVENGE, the topic being racial intolerance.  Behn was famously the author of ORINOOCO, another work about race, and her upbringing in the East Indian Colonies (which a few scholars have claimed was a fiction of her own creation - but there is no reason why she would have lied about it?) clearly gave her a heightened viewpoint on the topic.  The way in which Pinkerton Aeneas treats Cio-Cio-San Dido is neatly worked by the librettist...  each of the protagonists believing themselves to be justified in their actions within their own set of societal values, which lead to the resulting tragedy. 
« Last Edit: 02:05:46, 07-06-2008 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Kittybriton
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2690


Thank you for the music ...


WWW
« Reply #24 on: 01:49:09, 07-06-2008 »

All of which makes me painfully aware how pitifully little I know of Purcell's more serious music. (And then there's jazz... What have I been doing all this time?)
Logged

Click me ->About me
or me ->my handmade store
No, I'm not a complete idiot. I'm only a halfwit. In fact I'm actually a catfish.
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #25 on: 08:22:56, 07-06-2008 »

On Reiner's point about the additional prologue and dance music, I may have misunderstood but my copy of the Margaret Laurie/Thurston Dart edition seems to imply that these extras are only known about because they were included or implied in an early copy of the libretto (i.e. the words for a Prologue and 'Dance' indicated in a couple of places). Laurie and Dart therefore put together a suggested setting for the Prologue and various pieces of Dance music (plus some typical bass lines for 'Guitar Improvisations' also indicated in that libretto). These were however selected from other extant Purcell works and there doesn't seem to be any claim that they were the ones that would have been used in early performances: just that they are suitable ones that could be used in lieu of those ever turning up.
« Last Edit: 08:47:32, 07-06-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
strinasacchi
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 864


« Reply #26 on: 11:28:19, 07-06-2008 »

Aha, silly me, I actually have a copy of that Laurie/Dart score.  I will go retrieve it from where I hurled it across the room upon discovering they annotated loads of overdotting.

That score has been thoroughly superceded (among players, anyway) by the one from King's Music.  The older one was no doubt revolutionary in its time, in bringing much research into how the music would have been played in its day into the reach of players who wouldn't have had any idea.  But opinions about things like overdotting - and the level of knowledge you can expect players to bring to the piece - have changed since then.  The King's score is much cleaner and doesn't alter any of the rhythms or "correct" any of the notes from what Purcell wrote.

But it would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I'll have another look at the additional materials.

It's an interesting idea to bring issues of race into the opera.  Again, it would be useful to know more about how the myth evolved, what elements of the myth would have been common knowledge to people in Purcell and Tate's day, how they would have viewed these characters.

From a modern perspective, quite a lot is known about who these people were and where they were from.  Dido is not actually from Carthage - she founded the city after fleeing Tyre (in modern Lebanon, just south of Beirut), where the king (her father) had left the throne jointly to her and her brother.  (Some sources say the king left the throne entirely to her - either way, her brother forced her out.)  Aeneas, being from Troy, was (at current best guess) from an area on the western edge of modern Turkey.  And because they all lived well before the Arab invasions of North Africa and the Mediterranean rim, everyone would have "looked" quite different from what we might expect now.

But this level of research into the ancient myths - actually treating these characters as real historical figures - didn't happen until the 19th century I believe?  And from Purcell's, Tate's and their audience's point of view, "fate" may have had much to do with racial (and gender-based - Aeneas had a "choice" of going off to found Rome, or staying in Carthage as a queen's consort) issues.  But the one thing I think everyone would have known is that Dido is not from Carthage - she and her considerable following pitched up in North Africa and grabbed a bit of land from the local inhabitants through the clever use of this - and they say girls can't do math!   Wink
Logged
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #27 on: 11:48:31, 07-06-2008 »

I would like to see a production of D&A in which Dido is black (as she properly should be as a Carthaginian princess)

I'm all in favour of affirmative casting, although I believe the wonderful Jessye Norman has recorded the role.

However, even if Dido did come from Carthage originally, she would not be a sub-Saharan African.  Bit dusky, maybe, but not noire.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #28 on: 12:28:01, 07-06-2008 »

On Reiner's point about the additional prologue and dance music, I may have misunderstood but my copy of the Margaret Laurie/Thurston Dart edition seems to imply that these extras are only known about because they were included or implied in an early copy of the libretto

I may also have got the wrong end of the stick, and I'm relying on memory from having read that accompanying commentary several years ago - I'm staying in London at the moment and not near to my own copy.  However, I seemed to remember that this was newly-found material which is linked to being for D&A by some rather scribbled notes found on it.  Even so, as GG correctly points out, the libretto clearly mentions other material for the opera which is no longer in the "trad" version of the piece...  suggesting that the tersely-argued drama that runs for an hour or so is not what Purcell had in mind for the piece?   I wonder if "the opera we have now" is what the young girls of rhe school performed - with the additional material that "frames" it being performed by pros Purcell had brought along to bump up the performance?   That's purely conjecture on my part, of course Wink
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
MrY
**
Gender: Male
Posts: 53



« Reply #29 on: 12:29:26, 07-06-2008 »

What recordings of Dido would the Dido fans recommend?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
  Print  
 
Jump to: