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Tantris
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« on: 12:08:10, 08-03-2007 » |
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Next week's H&N has a couple of Birtwistle pieces, including a premiere of Lied, for cello and piano, so it's as good an excuse as any for a Birtwistle thread. I went through a period a couple of years ago in which I was wholly engrossed by his music, particularly his operas (including The Io Passion) his orchestral pieces and his chamber works (Pulse Shadows, etc.). I still enjoy much of his music, but I have to admit that there are several pieces that I don't find it as inspired as I used to, possibly because I understand better the debt these owe to certain sources (particularly Stravinsky and Nono). By contrast, there are pieces (e.g. Gawain, or Exody), which seem to occupy a very specific sound world that is wholly original. What do others think of his music?
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Vashti
Posts: 20
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« Reply #1 on: 13:43:42, 08-03-2007 » |
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Curious to know what joy you found in the "Io Passion" Tantris.
I found it very grey, dreary and boring.
But then, in the early 90s, so many were waxing lyrical about "Earth Dances", and I couldn't see much in that either.
"Punch and Judy" is super, and other pieces have their moments (the first few minutes of "Secret Theatre"), but it remains unclear to me why this guy is so rated.
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Tantris
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« Reply #3 on: 15:01:22, 08-03-2007 » |
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Hi Vashti - I saw The Io Passion at the RNCM, and thought the production was excellent. In particular, the music (string quartet + clarinet) is alluring, erotic and tense - a beautifully written foil to the story which mixes 'real' life and ritual. Now, having said that, I also think it is very derivative of others' use of myth and ritual, and consequently is not that original in idea - hence my question in my first post.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #4 on: 22:43:50, 08-03-2007 » |
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He's hugely prolific, and I guess - inevitably - there are going to be a few damp squibs here and there. I love The Triumph of Time, and would welcome an opportunity to hear Yan Tan Tethera again - I remember a R3 broadcast c1986 that had me gripped. Certain pieces I enjoy whilst also being aware that they are less than totally original (Endless Parade, Gawain's Journey); but some recent scores have had me hooked straight away and improve with each hearing (The Last Supper springs to mind).
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George Garnett
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« Reply #5 on: 23:34:32, 08-03-2007 » |
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Obviously only a personal view but for my money Birtwistle is the most significant composer we now have working in the UK. I like a great deal of his music from throughout his career. The Mask of Orpheus still strikes me as his undisputed and magnificent masterpiece but there are, IMHO, some very substantial and fine new works in recent years too. My view (personal again, obviously) is that both The Last Supper and The Io Passion suffer from inadequate libretti (in the sense that they let the works down, not in the 'they mustn't be too good or they will overwhelm the music' sense) but I thought the music in both was tremendous. Even if it was not entirely successful dramatically (or even as 'ritual' which Birtwistle seems just as interested in as 'drama') the Io Passion surely has some glorious music in it. I can't see any clarinet lovers, or players, finding it other than enthralling in purely musical terms. That alone kept me on the edge of my seat.
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #6 on: 00:03:37, 09-03-2007 » |
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Where would you place Yan-Tan-Tethera in his output, George (and others)?
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They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
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UB
Posts: 12
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« Reply #7 on: 10:10:15, 09-03-2007 » |
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I love the way Birtwistle layers his music. It is not possible to listen to all that is going on because when you follow one layer, the other two or three are background sounds. I think 'Earth Dances' is the best example of this. The layers of sound are often overwhelming and then he starts reducing them until there is only one before building them back up. Each time I listen to 'Earth Dances' I find new threads to follow and switching points.
'Exody' does much the same thing for me but 'Earth Dances' is still my favorite orchestral work. 'Gawain' will always be my favorite opera - unfortunately just listening does not do it justice. I am sure the same thing is true of 'The Io Passion.'
I agree with GG that for me Birtwistle is the most significant UK composer at this time and I believe - mainly because of his operas - he will be late 20th - early 21st century UK composer that will still be being regularly played in 50 to 100 years.
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clough
Posts: 20
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« Reply #8 on: 10:37:16, 09-03-2007 » |
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Birtwistle is one of the composers who really got me into modern orchestral music. 'Earth Dances' was my first exposure to him (the Wire description of it featuring different parts of the orchestra moving at different speeds was what first intrigued me), so is a particularly important piece for me. I heard some of 'Mask' years ago, but I'm not big on modern vocal pieces (more of a Tallis man - CofE childhood! and our organist used to do a belting version of Widor's Toccata). I should probably try it again though. There's a piece on one of the NMC discs (not Triumph of Time) - a horn concerto, I think - that I keep coming back to (or would if I hadn't appeared to have lent it out to someone!) It's still hard to get hold of a lot of his stuff, isn't it? 'I'd love to get hold of 'Harrison's Clocks' and 'Pulse Shadows', in particular.
And I caught half his interview on the Today programme the day after his Novello Awards ceremony outburst, where he sounded like a right daft old bugger. Until I realsied who it was, and that he'd actually said these things to the awards audience. Just goes to show that context is everything, when evaluating someone's opinion.
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UB
Posts: 12
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« Reply #9 on: 11:06:54, 09-03-2007 » |
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Clough and anyone else who is interested Avondconcert has a large number of Birtwistle's music available for listening on demand. The 1999 performance of 'Exody' is one of my favorites and the Eotvos premiere is a very nice bonus. |
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clough
Posts: 20
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« Reply #10 on: 11:13:42, 09-03-2007 » |
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Excellent resource! Thanks a lot UB
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George Garnett
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« Reply #11 on: 11:33:02, 09-03-2007 » |
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Where would you place Yan-Tan-Tethera in his output, George (and others)?
I've actually only encountered it once, RT, in a television broadcast on a telly with probably not very good sound a long time ago so I can't really comment (Southern Television, as was? Production from the Queen Elizabeth Hall from dodgy memory?). From others' comments here I really must try and get to hear it again. Have recently been greatly enjoying a 2004 CD from Nicolas Hodges (and Claire Edwardes, percussion) of 'The Axe Manual' and Birtwistle's other piano music. Packed with interest. |
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« Last Edit: 21:36:38, 09-03-2007 by George Garnett »
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #12 on: 12:14:16, 09-03-2007 » |
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Indeed Yan-Tan-Tethera was QEH, George - I went twice, in fact. I suppose I wanted to know if you thought it had a dodgy libretto too? I really feel HB has hampered himself with poorly-written texts on many occasions, and for me they jar so badly that I don't want to hear the piece a second time... they become the trees for which you can't see the wood. "This is the moment, that was waiting for you..." Dearie-me, it sounds like Kenneth Williams on Jackanory  I loved THE MASK OF ORPHEUS... unfortunately the works that followed suffer too readily from bathos to make them enjoyable for me. |
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« Last Edit: 12:16:12, 09-03-2007 by reiner_torheit »
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They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
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Peter Grimes
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« Reply #13 on: 12:15:51, 09-03-2007 » |
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I experienced severe culture shock in the late 1980s when on the same day I went to see 91/2 Weeks in the afternoon, then The Mask of Orpheus in the evening. Both left me stunned and bewildered, for different reasons. I have never fully recovered.
My favourite Birtwistle story concerns a composers' workshop he attended at York University. One of the more earnest undergraduates had produced a computer-generated work for solo violin. The piece was pitiful and reminded those present of the great Jack Benny's playing.
As it scratched wretchedly to a conclusion, Harry looked heavenwards for a full minute. He tossed the score on the floor and said slowly "What did you need a f***ing computer for?"
Yan Tan Tethera should definitely be shown again. I seem to remember Mary Wiegold was one of the sheep. I taped it originally but now have no VCR to play it back.
Silbury Air is another forbidding but rewarding piece.
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"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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martle
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« Reply #14 on: 12:24:55, 09-03-2007 » |
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Reiner, what do you make of Russell Hoban's libretto for The Second Mrs Kong? I thought it was pretty admirable - and another interesting show as a whole which could do with an outing. I think Mask of Orpheus is just simply a classic, gold-plated masterpiece. I know at least a couple of composers who, having seen the original production, claimed it changed their lives.  |
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Green. Always green.
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