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Author Topic: In praise of composition  (Read 1947 times)
Ian Pace
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« Reply #15 on: 12:02:01, 14-03-2007 »

...  "and so the poor doggy had none".
At 0658h I misread this through coffee steam, but I think the resulting question needs answering anyway:

How would you feel if your composition became known as a ringtone?

Kitty, do have a read of this: http://www.musicalpointers.co.uk/articles/generaltopics/Macmillan%20ringtone.htm
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
roslynmuse
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« Reply #16 on: 13:10:45, 14-03-2007 »

Back to Hough - my first reaction on reading his article was - yes, I agree, a bit of flexing of the creative muscles, compositionally speaking, does no-one any harm and probably the 'flexer' some good. So long as it is one of those things that is done between consenting adults in private...

I'm even quite happy to hear SH's compositions in his own recitals, should he wish to include them - some of his transcriptions are very enjoyable, and his own style is harmless, indistinguishable from that of many other composer-pianists from the early - mid C20th (!)

My concern is the same as Richard's - ie that the performance of this cello concerto is happening on the back of SH's name (as a fine pianist of the sort of repertoire he does best) rather than as a composer in his own right. That looks like the RLPS playing safe, just as the BBC did with Michael Nyman the other day.
It helps that he has a good mate in Stephen Isserlis, of course, to sell the performance still more.

But we know how unfair life is, and the best people don't always get the best breaks. If there is a villain in the piece I would say it is the RLPS looking to their coffers, rather than Hough himself.

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time_is_now
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« Reply #17 on: 14:55:51, 14-03-2007 »

But for that purpose one should be careful to seek one's partner's prior approval where failure to do so might lead to matutinal friction.  Undecided
'Frictions', of course, being the title given by Richard to a series of ringtones composed especially for the purpose ... Wink
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
oliver sudden
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« Reply #18 on: 17:39:38, 14-03-2007 »

I knew as soon as I had typed friction that someone would come up with that. Smiley
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George Garnett
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« Reply #19 on: 00:00:03, 15-03-2007 »

I nearly did but was so beguiled by 'matutinal' I went all limp.
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rumblefish
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« Reply #20 on: 15:58:40, 20-03-2007 »

Rafael Kubelik,Antal Dorati and Igor Markevitch also ( in addition to Furtwangler and Klemperer who RB mentions)took their composing seriously.In all three cases it impacted in their programming which was more open to (what was then)modern music : infact,Kubelik got the push from Chicago on account of this. Angry
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autoharp
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« Reply #21 on: 17:02:33, 20-03-2007 »

Serious composers, these people.
I get bothered when certain top-flight performers start to carve out compositional cred for themselves when they're plainly not up to the job. Naming no names, but a certain sax player comes to mind . . .
(I don't include Hough whose music I don't know. Excellent pianist, though)
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #22 on: 10:52:17, 21-03-2007 »

Like it or not though, Beethoven and Mozart owed a fair bit of their 'compositional cred' to their performing skills. Compare them to someone like Schubert, certainly in their league as a composer but who could only get a hearing in smaller circles.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #23 on: 11:54:57, 21-03-2007 »

Like it or not though, Beethoven and Mozart owed a fair bit of their 'compositional cred' to their performing skills. Compare them to someone like Schubert, certainly in their league as a composer but who could only get a hearing in smaller circles.

Maybe today (in the UK) one needs to be connected to a University music dept or similar to have "compositional cred" and there are plenty of Schuberts out there who get little or no opportunity to be heard because they haven't got the "day job" to give them respectability.

Anyone any thoughts on this? I'm doing some research on it at the moment and would welcome contributions either based on hard facts or anecdotal "evidence".
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martle
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« Reply #24 on: 12:16:36, 21-03-2007 »

rm, well I don't have any hard evidence but I think there is more than one type of 'cred' involved here. If we're strictly talking 'cred' as in 'respect' or 'earning stripes', then yes I suppose Uni composers have it to a greater or lesser degree. But if we're talking 'cred' as in 'street cred', rather the opposite is (or can be) the case. I've come across the point of view, in fact, whereby a composer is seen as being very UNcred for working in a Uni. 'Those who can't, teach' etc. - and earning a safe and secure income in this way is seen to fly in the face of the image of struggling artist, out plying a trade on the streets, in touch with the people etc. (however misrepresentative this image is). Fact: one composer who used to teach at a Uni (but who no longer does) insisted on keeping his title (Professor) OUT of his concert programme bios, and in fact his bio made no mention of his 'day job' at all. Too stuffy, see? There's the Babbittian 'ivory tower' complex too: removing 'difficult' music from the realms of the uninitiated and protecting the legacy within the cosy confines of academe.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #25 on: 12:22:11, 21-03-2007 »

Thanks, Martle, good balanced view there. I'm interested particularly in composers who have had relatively good careers whilst "in post" (commissions, festivals etc) and who have been dropped on retirement, but what you say is a good counter-argument. Haven't a lot of time to post today, but I'll keep my eyes out for other contributions and respond later!
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #26 on: 12:34:16, 21-03-2007 »

Like it or not though, Beethoven and Mozart owed a fair bit of their 'compositional cred' to their performing skills. Compare them to someone like Schubert, certainly in their league as a composer but who could only get a hearing in smaller circles.

That's certainly true, Ollie.  Shostakovich openly said that he'd written his Piano Concerto as a work that would enable him to get out onto the concert platform as soloist, and "put himself about a bit" - possibly touring abroad with the work too (which is why it's so lightly scored, presumably?).
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richard barrett
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« Reply #27 on: 14:38:21, 21-03-2007 »

Thanks, Martle, good balanced view there. I'm interested particularly in composers who have had relatively good careers whilst "in post" (commissions, festivals etc) and who have been dropped on retirement, but what you say is a good counter-argument. Haven't a lot of time to post today, but I'll keep my eyes out for other contributions and respond later!
From my own experience, which isn't great, I'd agree with Martle that "academic respectability" can probably work both ways. Having recently transferred to the academic community from the struggling artist community, I don't detect any difference in the way the music I do is perceived (or not, as the case may be).
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #28 on: 12:21:37, 22-03-2007 »

There's the Babbittian 'ivory tower' complex too: removing 'difficult' music from the realms of the uninitiated and protecting the legacy within the cosy confines of academe.

Maybe the differing relationships of the universities themselves to the wider community, and how this differs from country to country, is also a factor? Very loosely, I do feel that British universities some slightly less aloof from the wider society than, say, their American counterparts (from what experience I have of them). It seems a mentality as much as anything, Maybe this is why you can have the crazy situation as you do in the US whereby on campus, using the word 'niggardly' or something can be perceived as a racial slur and lead to disciplinary action, whereas in the rest of the country a great many African-Americans languish on death row. The point being that those who ferociously defend the former attitudes seem relatively unconcerned about the latter. And in terms of artistic activity on campus in the US, other than in terms of composers thinking about their careers (plenty of that, of course), I get little impression that what the wider society makes of their music (or makes of musicological work), or whether it even could be meaningful in a wider context, remotely seems to matter to many of those in the ivory towers. Whilst of course there is plenty of that in British academia as well (and maybe increasingly so), somehow I just don't feel it's quite as stark. Universities don't seem total oases from the external world, except perhaps for Oxbridge.

Now that I've been involved in academia for about four years, I have mixed and slightly conflicting feelings about 'academic respectability', or for that matter 'intellectual respectability' as exists on campus. I'm surprised by Richard's comments, and reckon they probably reflect the unusuality of his particular institution, with only a minimal scholarly/musicological component to the faculty there. At best, amongst academic musicians, I do often find a much more searching and intellectual curious attitude to music, and its wider dimensions in terms of culture and society, than in the wider musical community. And, despite all my criticisms of the New Musicology, I do think it's important that such issues as music and gender, music and orientalism, and so on, are considered, those which are deliberately ignored by many of those in the compositional/performance world for whom it might not be in their interests to do so (my beef with the New Musicology is how they frequently do so). But I'd also say that attitudes, especially to new music (including amongst quite a few of those for whom new music is an area of expertise) the attitudes in academic music are radically different to those in the rest of the new music world. The idea that, say, American minimalism represents a more collective, decentered, less goal-oriented approach to composition than the supposedly macho, egocentric posturing of much that falls under the category of 'modernism' is highly developed in Anglo-American academia and not often challenged. It's not my view by any means (I would argue on the contrary that the former music satisfies the demands of passive listening and mass manipulation as engendered by the culture industry), but I would be hard pressed to say that in the critical dimensions of such an attitude, with respect to this 'modernism', not to mention its institutionalisation, there isn't a little truth in some such perspectives. If the cult of the 'great artist' (or its contemporary reappropriation in terms of celebrity culture) is at least set into relief a bit, I can't but see that is a good thing. But in the wider new music world, such cults seem to be intrinsic and hardly ever questioned at all. We meet laugh a bit at Stockhausen's crazy self-mythology, mostly because it looks so ridiculous at times, but do we really question the whole construction of the 'great composer' for which Stockhausen continues to be held up as a major example?

At worst, though, academia can be about a huge amount of mutual bottom-patting between colleagues who are interested primarily in saying whatever are the right things in order to ingratiate themselves with others and thus help their career chances. Or petty feuding and continual bitching over trivial matters, seemingly far more important to the academics concerned than the ostensibly serious things they are supposed to be investigating (of course there's plenty of all that in the wider musical world as well). The current institution with which I'm involved, in my experience so far, shows a lot of the much better possibilities in academia, whereas the last one I was that was the reverse in many ways. But I'm concerned not least that a lot of writing on new music these days falls into the latter category, combined with a lot of self-fashioning on the parts of the writers, knowing how to cynically navigate their positions so as to attract most attention (thus much higher on rhetoric than substance) in a rather narcissistic fashion, with little or no concern about how what they write might be meaningful and illuminating in any wider arena. With huge irony, the attempts of some musicologists supposedly to open up music to a wider arena of cultural debate (in itself a laudable aim), as away from a perceived excessive focus on what is claimed to be a 'formalist' approach, has resulted in a smug, jargon-ridden mode of discourse which if anything entails an even greater degree of mystification to what it supposedly replaces. I've just been reading the woefully disappointing new Contemporary Music Review issue, on 'Other Darmstadts', which for the most part (save for one or two essays) exhibits most of the worst qualities I've been mentioning. I find it hard to see how it will contribute to any greater understanding of what the institution of Darmstadt and the music produced there in its heyday actually entailed, let alone what it might mean in contemporary terms, preferring instead to give some tabloid-style gossip about participants' private lives (as an alternative to a serious engagment with their work, whether in the form of music or writings), a fair amount of fashionable jargon about whether certain music was 'proto-post-modernist' or not, and also a bit of cynical playing-to-the-gallery through raising the usual prejudices about how terribly closed and dull all things European are, as compared to the glittering global supermarket represented by America. Of course there's no particular reason to take any notice of such an issue (and I wouldn't recommend anyone goes out of their way to do so); I only care because this sort of self-serving writing is the only stuff that seems to get published these days, precluding the possibility of the sort of musicology that might conceivably have some wider impact. There are of course exceptions - Robin Maconie's revised book on Stockhausen, Other Planets, is one I would cite - but these seem very much the exception rather than the rule.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
richard barrett
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« Reply #29 on: 12:35:31, 22-03-2007 »

Quote
I'm surprised by Richard's comments
And what, pray tell, surprises you about them? All I'm saying is that I don't think a composer's music is judged in the wider world according to whether he/she has an academic position. Certainly as a listener I have no particular interest in knowing such things.
Quote
his particular institution, with only a minimal scholarly/musicological component to the faculty there
Lest anyone get the impression from this dismissive comment that the faculty in question consists of a bunch of anti-intellectual airheads, I should point out that the intellectual level of my colleagues is probably as high as that found anywhere else.
« Last Edit: 12:38:33, 22-03-2007 by richard barrett » Logged
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