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Author Topic: In praise of composition  (Read 1947 times)
reiner_torheit
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« on: 07:31:11, 14-03-2007 »

Stephen Hough disses performers who fail to compose:

http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2024289,00.html

(warning, bassoonists may find this article saddening...)
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They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
richard barrett
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« Reply #1 on: 09:18:02, 14-03-2007 »

Thanks for that link, Reiner. Let's have a look at Stephen Hough's website to see the extent to which he is "strongly committed to performing and promoting contemporary music". Brahms, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Chopin, Hummel, Schumann, Franck, Saint-Saëns... ah, here we are: Corigliano, Liebermann and MacMillan, there's a few names on the cutting edge of 21st century pianistic composition. Now I'd certainly not wish to discourage performers from composing (still less composers from performing), but Hough's dilettantish attitude and naïve advice to all those non-composing performers out there - have some fun, earn some royalties! - is to my mind a pretty threadbare reason for writing music, and certainly doesn't encourage this listener to want to cross the street to hear his work. Whatever happened to the idea of having "something to say"?
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clough
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« Reply #2 on: 09:41:34, 14-03-2007 »

I take it you weren't the recipient of the birthday waltz series 'Suite R-B' then, Richard!

I'd have thought the general thrust of the article - that musicians should at least have a bash at some composing - isn't such a bad idea, though I would also have thought that a lot of musicians would  do it to a small extent anyway. Maybe that's just me being naive (and from a rock background, where, like jazz and church organ, there's a tradition of it - composition that is, not naivity, although....). Any performers out there to enlighten us on this? I took the royalties remark to be rather tongue in cheek (which again may say more about my own activities!). Though I see nothing wrong with trying to make every piece, however small, a masterpiece, especially if it's not your 'day-job'.
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #3 on: 10:08:05, 14-03-2007 »

I felt sorriest for the bassoonist who'd asked Hough for a work... Hough got started and found he preferred what he'd written if it was played on the cello...

...  "and so the poor doggy had none".
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They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
trained-pianist
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« Reply #4 on: 10:21:13, 14-03-2007 »

There were performers that composed and it is good for them to try. I agree with clough. There were Kreisler with his famous numbers. Shura Cherkassky composed when he was eleven, but then did not do it again. Horowitz arranged some Bizet and March for himself. Now Marc-Andre Hamelin on In Tune played his study. It turn out to be an arrangement of Tchaikovsky LullyBye for left hand.
Many of this compositions are interesting only as curiosity pieces and are not innovative. Busoni composed too on a bigger scale. It is very difficult to combine two occupations because both take so much time. Rachmaninoff wrote almost nothing when he started to give concerts.
I think there are pianists that concentrate on contemporary music and are good performers. I recently heard Taub and found he can play both repertoire (contemporary and not) very well. May be he is not known enough. He is american from Princeton and very nice person too.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #5 on: 10:30:09, 14-03-2007 »

I do think that all musicians ought to have a working knowledge of compositional technique, just as all composers should have a working knowledge of instrumental technique, even if it's obviously impossible for them to actually play all the instruments they write for, like for example the bassoon - if you start off writing a piece for bassoon and find that it sounds better on the cello, the implication could be drawn that it isn't particularly idiomatic to either. The specialisation of roles into composition and performance to which Hough refers is indeed a recent historical phenomenon, but actually that case can be hugely overstated - this specialisation has been more imposed on musicians through the structure of music education and the music industry than brought about by the musicians themselves. Actually very few of the better-known 20th century composers had no involvement in performance at all, while on the other hand musicians like Klemperer and Furtwängler were far more active as composers than their "image" would lead one to think. Also, the development of electronic music especially since the advent of portable computers is engendering a new kind of composer/performer (and new kinds of connection between "cöassical" and other musics) which presumably Mr Hough knows little or nothing about, so that his arguments come out sounding (at least to me) stale and uninformed, indeed belonging to a century which is receding into the past.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #6 on: 10:38:50, 14-03-2007 »

I suppose to be fair, Mr Hough's main point seems to be that doing a bit of composing at the very least makes you a better performer. Which seems a fair point? 
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richard barrett
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« Reply #7 on: 10:50:48, 14-03-2007 »

Yes, George, of course you're right. But "a bit of composing" is one thing, while writing a cello (né bassoon) concerto to be performed by Steven Isserlis and the RLPO under the composer's direction is quite another, especially when there are dozens if not hundreds of people around who have devoted their lives to composing, instead of doing a bit of it on the side, and never have the chance to put their work anywhere near a professional orchestra.

Maybe I should now flounce petulantly over to the Grumpy Old Rant thread.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #8 on: 10:59:13, 14-03-2007 »

It is not easy to be a composer. The fact that people are professionaly trained and can write something (as with knowing how to write a language) doesn't make one a composer automatically.
Mahler did both and is great. The problem is to write something that is worthwhile for performers to play.
Our time is strange, but I want to think that there is a place for everyone. There is a big interest in music. There are many more educated people now than ever before. We just have to attract people to music.

I must be in a good mood today. I don't know why, but I sound very optimistic.
« Last Edit: 11:17:16, 14-03-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« Reply #9 on: 11:00:05, 14-03-2007 »

...  "and so the poor doggy had none".
At 0658h I misread this through coffee steam, but I think the resulting question needs answering anyway:

How would you feel if your composition became known as a ringtone?
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richard barrett
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« Reply #10 on: 11:10:32, 14-03-2007 »

Quote
How would you feel if your composition became known as a ringtone?
That's a feeling I for one never expect to experience. One of the advantages of doing the kind of music I do is that it doesn't really offer much scope for that kind of superficial use of soundbites. However: I'd be horrified if someone thought thet some music I'd written would be appropriate say for a crazed soldier to blare out of his helicopter while terrorising innocent people (I hope Wagner would have been horrified too!), but ringtones are fairly harmless, aren't they?
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #11 on: 11:16:02, 14-03-2007 »

Have you already forgotten what comes out of my phone when you call, Richard?  Cry

 Wink
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Bryn
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« Reply #12 on: 11:21:16, 14-03-2007 »

if you start off writing a piece for bassoon and find that it sounds better on the cello, the implication could be drawn that it isn't particularly idiomatic to either.

Hmm. That does rather put me in mind of a little soirée held at Hugh Shrapnel's abode many years ago, when a bunch of us Scratchers played through some of our juvenilia. Mine was a sketch of a "'Cello Sonata". Unfortunately, we did not have a 'cellist available at the event, so it was played on bassoon by Christopher Hobbs. My recollection is that the piece lived down to your point, Richard. Wink
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richard barrett
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« Reply #13 on: 11:23:30, 14-03-2007 »

Quote
Have you already forgotten
No, Ollie, by no means, but Kitty was asking about how one would feel about a composition "becoming known" as a ringtone, and (being something of a phonophobe myself, unfortunately) I don't think I call your mobile often enough to achieve that.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #14 on: 11:32:23, 14-03-2007 »

Well let's see what we can do about that then.

I'm not quite techie enough to upload my Barrett Ringtone. It consists of some trombone hooning (with bassoon reeds) from right at the end of ruin which in the context of the piece repeats anyway, making it fine ringtone material. But I would be happy to email the mp3 to any interested parties who express their interest over my email link here as long as someone assures me that that would be OK from a copyright point of view. It consists of a couple of seconds from an 18-minute piece so it's a very small proportion. It would also offer no one any financial gain whatsoever. Smiley Of course you would need a mobile that can attach to your computer and play mp3s as ringtones. Or alarm tones - it's very effective at waking one up too. But for that purpose one should be careful to seek one's partner's prior approval where failure to do so might lead to matutinal friction.  Undecided
« Last Edit: 11:34:32, 14-03-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
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