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Author Topic: H&N 24/03/07  (Read 1342 times)
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #15 on: 16:36:26, 25-03-2007 »

The photographic evidence certainly supports your thesis, HH. Maybe Oswald's activities are less well-known than I thought they were. <whistle>
Well, considering that this is in the second sentence of the first paragraph of this site:
Quote from: Canadian Music Centre
is making several trips in the next few weeks to Europe to play sax with Michael Snow's improvising trio CCMC
http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=10734&by=O
I'd suggest that his activities are fairly well known, at least to the Canadian Music Centre even if not so to Mr Sandall.
« Last Edit: 23:11:45, 25-03-2007 by harmonyharmony » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: 12:11:57, 26-03-2007 »

Can confirm all the improvising musician 'rumours' -- seen Oswald do his thing w/CCMC (really badly, I might add, it seems only the pianist and the drummer were on talking terms that day) a few years ago, supporting Polwechsel (w/John Butcher).

Jennyhorn:

"i'm also impressed with Volkov's programming- -he took charge of a London Sinfonietta concert a year or so back and it included a number of composers which might otherwise have been overlooked (a wacky piece by Luke Stoneham which the critics hated,but was for me the best thing in the programme)"

"Hip to Easter Island" played at St Luke's wasn't it? Sounded like a prog-rock/funk pastiche and v funny how it ws programmed next to Lachenmann. Not as good as L but better than the Dumitrescu premiere.

What is the rest of Luke's music like? Anyone?

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #17 on: 12:53:19, 26-03-2007 »

Can confirm all the improvising musician 'rumours' -- seen Oswald do his thing w/CCMC (really badly, I might add, it seems only the pianist and the drummer were on talking terms that day) a few years ago, supporting Polwechsel (w/John Butcher).

Jennyhorn:

"i'm also impressed with Volkov's programming- -he took charge of a London Sinfonietta concert a year or so back and it included a number of composers which might otherwise have been overlooked (a wacky piece by Luke Stoneham which the critics hated,but was for me the best thing in the programme)"

"Hip to Easter Island" played at St Luke's wasn't it? Sounded like a prog-rock/funk pastiche and v funny how it ws programmed next to Lachenmann. Not as good as L but better than the Dumitrescu premiere.

What is the rest of Luke's music like? Anyone?

I couldn't for the life of me see the logic behind the programming in that concert. It was like one of those pizzas with lots of things all piled on with no concern for how well they mix. I like quite a bit of Luke's music and have played several of the piano pieces (Magenta Cuts and ...pour les cinq doigts are particularly fine) but I couldn't take that piece. I didn't hear the prog-rock aspect in it, but a lot of it seemed based on Chicago funk, specifically that from George Clinton (him of Parliament, Funkadelic fame). The latter is fabulous stuff, but getting the London Sinfonietta to try and play like a funk band from South Side Chicago - well. let's not even go there. Plus, the quotation from the Grange Hill signature tune...... Sad

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time_is_now
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« Reply #18 on: 13:06:06, 26-03-2007 »

Jennyhorn: "(a wacky piece by Luke Stoneham which the critics hated,but was for me the best thing in the programme)"

"Hip to Easter Island" played at St Luke's wasn't it? Sounded like a prog-rock/funk pastiche and v funny how it ws programmed next to Lachenmann. Not as good as L but better than the Dumitrescu premiere.

What is the rest of Luke's music like? Anyone?
xyzzzz__, it was indeed pastiche, or more accurately a transcription, of the Parliament song of the same name (from the Mothership Connection album, I believe, though what would I know, I'm just one of those critics who hated Luke's piece Wink ). For me it was not a successful piece, going on for far too long for what was basically a straight transcription and seeming odd not so much because it was sitting next to ol' Helmut as because it didn't do the sort of things any piece in a Sinfonietta concert would normally be expected to do to justify a length of around 10-12 minutes.

As for the rest of Luke's music, I mainly know a few (biggish) piano pieces: Altawhid, Magenta Cuts, Mercury in Retrograde, etc. They're sort of highly decorative (in an elaborately-textured late Romantic kind of way), somewhat Finnissy-ish in their more elaborate textures though with a certain amount of minimalist-style repetition of short figures in at least Mercury in Retrograde, and with both thelate Romantic and the minimalist styles both allowing Stoneham to use key signatures (he seems to like very flat ones like 5 flats) in a fairly flexible, often chromatically rich harmonic idiom.

I was sorry to miss his short LSO piece Proem last year, and I don't know his earlier orchestral piece Julius Tomb, nor his chamber opera La Pucelle. Regarding the latter, I do wish he'd provide some documentary evidence (like a page number ...) for the assertion, repeated in every concert programme Stoneham biog I've ever read, that 'His 1993 chamber opera La Pucelle was one of few works by a young British composer to appear in Paul Griffiths' book Modern Music and After.'
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« Reply #19 on: 14:12:04, 26-03-2007 »

Yes funk not prog. I can't remember too much about it, except I thought the funk ws not v 'funky' at all.

The only other piece I can think of that is in a similar ballpark, but ws probably more successful, is "Relations" by Clarence Barlow.

"I couldn't for the life of me see the logic behind the programming in that concert."

I agree that there wasn't any logic, as in these pieces don't really go together. I suppose it can look as if its a bad joke. Although, at the time, I thought that Lachenmann and Stoneham represented two ends of new music that I suppose don't 'talk' to each other so surely the point ws to get ppl who might only want to hear Lachenmann-type stuff to hear Luke and vice-versa (ppl who are more into composers who makes pieces with popular music in mind so that they can hear the other end) (?)


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Ian Pace
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« Reply #20 on: 14:18:58, 26-03-2007 »

I agree that there wasn't any logic, as in these pieces don't really go together. I suppose it can look as if its a bad joke. Although, at the time, I thought that Lachenmann and Stoneham represented two ends of new music that I suppose don't 'talk' to each other so surely the point ws to get ppl who might only want to hear Lachenmann-type stuff to hear Luke and vice-versa (ppl who are more into composers who makes pieces with popular music in mind so that they can hear the other end) (?)

That sort of thing can be interesting if there's some other piece that creates some sort of audible link, otherwise the juxtaposition seems arbitrary.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Evan Johnson
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« Reply #21 on: 15:18:18, 26-03-2007 »

I do wish he'd provide some documentary evidence (like a page number ...) for the assertion, repeated in every concert programme Stoneham biog I've ever read, that 'His 1993 chamber opera La Pucelle was one of few works by a young British composer to appear in Paul Griffiths' book Modern Music and After.'

Luke Stoneham is only a name to me, so I can't explain the discrepancy in titles here, although there may be a very good explanation; but there is this:

In many instances the construction of artificial or equivocal sexualities may have a strong homosexual charge--as in the counter-tenor Oberon of Britten's A Midsummer Night's Dream (1960), or the principal character of The Intelligence Park (1981-8) by Gerald Barry (b. 1952), or the Joan of Arc, again a counter-tenor role, in Arms and the Maid (1993) by Luke Stoneham--but the possibility of such characters seems to be in the nature of the art as much as in that of the composer.

(p. 250)

So there is something, although of course there are absolutely no claims involved about the interest or quality of the music, only of the casting of a male in a diegetically female part.  Seems more the result of a good publicist than anything else!
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time_is_now
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« Reply #22 on: 15:50:16, 26-03-2007 »

In many instances the construction of artificial or equivocal sexualities may have a strong homosexual charge--as in the counter-tenor Oberon of Britten's A Midsummer Night's Dream (1960), or the principal character of The Intelligence Park (1981-8) by Gerald Barry (b. 1952), or the Joan of Arc, again a counter-tenor role, in Arms and the Maid (1993) by Luke Stoneham--but the possibility of such characters seems to be in the nature of the art as much as in that of the composer.

(p. 250)

So there is something, although of course there are absolutely no claims involved about the interest or quality of the music, only of the casting of a male in a diegetically female part.  Seems more the result of a good publicist than anything else!
A desperate publicist, surely?! If that's the nearest to a good review quote Stoneham's ever had I don't think I'd be advising him to draw attention to the fact.

Thanks for the reference, anyway - that's been bothering me for a long time! (I know, I know, you must all be envying my exciting life, what with this and me getting all thrilled about Tim R-J's commas this morning ...) But is that indexed in your copy, Evan? Or did you just happen upon it in the text. Because it's certainly not in the index of my paperback edition, and I don't remember ever reading that passage, though the style gives it away as being by Paul.

I know Luke Stoneham gets mentioned on these boards occasionally - usually by jenny, who seems to be a big dan - but, though I quite like what I've heard by him, the thing that bothers me is that he only seems to occasion interest among people who know him personally. Not sure what to make of this. Good to know he's at least a name to you over in the States (or is that through your British connections?).
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« Reply #23 on: 21:57:55, 26-03-2007 »

Thanks for the reference, anyway - that's been bothering me for a long time! (I know, I know, you must all be envying my exciting life, what with this and me getting all thrilled about Tim R-J's commas this morning ...) But is that indexed in your copy, Evan? Or did you just happen upon it in the text. Because it's certainly not in the index of my paperback edition, and I don't remember ever reading that passage, though the style gives it away as being by Paul.

I know Luke Stoneham gets mentioned on these boards occasionally - usually by jenny, who seems to be a big dan - but, though I quite like what I've heard by him, the thing that bothers me is that he only seems to occasion interest among people who know him personally. Not sure what to make of this. Good to know he's at least a name to you over in the States (or is that through your British connections?).

There is indeed in this edition an entry in the index for "Stoneham, Luke: 250".  It's not clear to me whether or not this is a new edition of "Modern Music and After"; it's a 2002 reprint of a (c) 1995 text, for what that's worth. 

And I'm not sure I'd say that Stoneham is a name in a broader sense in the States, although my "British connections" are notional at best, being invariably either secondhand, exclusively cyber-, or the result of temporary intercontinental dislocation on the part either of me or the British subject in question. I've never been to Britain myself.  Probably the only reason I've ever heard of Stoneham is that, being in the US, I am starved for intelligent English-language discussion of intelligent music, which is not to be found here, or the dissemination of that music beyond the VERY occasional concert at universities or in large cities. Hence my presence on these boards, hence my patronage of H&N, and hence, I'm sure, my having heard (however vaguely) of Stoneham.  I'm sure the vast majority of even contemporary-music types over here have never heard of him.
« Last Edit: 02:03:51, 27-03-2007 by Evan Johnson » Logged
martle
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« Reply #24 on: 22:16:30, 26-03-2007 »

Evan
That's all a bit depressing. Where are you based in the US? Is this a local problem (I mean the lack of opportunities for new music/ any music discussion)? I've been resident in the States for a total of 5 years of my life, and recognise some of what you describe; but I'm also aware of A LOT of composers and performers who are acutely aware of what's up (or down) - like you and Aaron - and who are every bit as informed about what's going on the world over. What a shame if there are no discussion fora of this standard (at least!) over there. I just haven't explored - at least recently.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #25 on: 22:25:26, 26-03-2007 »

Evan
That's all a bit depressing. Where are you based in the US? Is this a local problem (I mean the lack of opportunities for new music/ any music discussion)? I've been resident in the States for a total of 5 years of my life, and recognise some of what you describe; but I'm also aware of A LOT of composers and performers who are acutely aware of what's up (or down) - like you and Aaron - and who are every bit as informed about what's going on the world over. What a shame if there are no discussion fora of this standard (at least!) over there. I just haven't explored - at least recently.

If there was any justice in the world, there would be big presentations of the work of both Aaron and Evan in major festivals around the US. To anyone reading here - make a point of looking out for anything by either of them - some of the few really intelligent and interesting voices in a musical culture where commercialism and careerism has almost squashed everything else.
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martle
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« Reply #26 on: 22:37:05, 26-03-2007 »

If there was any justice in the world, there would be big presentations of the work of both Aaron and Evan in major festivals around the US. To anyone reading here - make a point of looking out for anything by either of them - some of the few really intelligent and interesting voices in a musical culture where commercialism and careerism has almost squashed everything else.

Actually Ian, I reckon there are more than a 'few' in the US. In fact I know a dozen or so youngish US composers myself whose music is risibly ignored there, let alone here. The quality of E's and A's posts here is (no offense to them, of course!) merely cicumstantial evidence of this. But you're right about it being harder to engage in communal dialogue here than (until now, anyway) here.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #27 on: 22:41:10, 26-03-2007 »

If there was any justice in the world, there would be big presentations of the work of both Aaron and Evan in major festivals around the US. To anyone reading here - make a point of looking out for anything by either of them - some of the few really intelligent and interesting voices in a musical culture where commercialism and careerism has almost squashed everything else.

Actually Ian, I reckon there are more than a 'few' in the US. In fact I know a dozen or so youngish US composers myself whose music is risibly ignored there, let alone here. The quality of E's and A's posts here is (no offense to them, of course!) merely cicumstantial evidence of this. But you're right about it being harder to engage in communal dialogue here than (until now, anyway) here.

There's a lack of any new music festival, other than the excellent June in Buffalo, that has both an international standing and serves as a place of focus for really radical and individual composition (I don't count Tanglewood). It seems very hard for composers to make a showing outside of the universities there (unless they turn into the usual type of 'orchestra'-composers, or become boppy minimalists), though there are some good things that have happened in New York and Chicago and a few other places, inevitably surviving on pitiful budgets, though. But E & A could certainly say more about all of this.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
martle
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« Reply #28 on: 22:43:08, 26-03-2007 »

Ian
Agreed entirely, and look forward to comments from them (assuming they have the time).  Smiley
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #29 on: 23:10:14, 26-03-2007 »

I listened to this broadcast yesterday afternoon, having been interested by what I had read about Plunderphonics.
I have to say that I was disappointed.
It all seemed quite conventional if I'm completely honest. There are people out there making better montage than this.

Concerto for Conductor and Orchestra lacked a certain something in broadcast. It was difficult to discern what was triggered by the conductor's gesture and differentiate it from the live orchestra. There were the beginnings of some interesting ideas (a flavour of Hymnen at times) but it didn't last long enough to really cohere (IMO). I also found exclusive reliance on the 'popular classics' slightly tedious.

Ariature was pretty, but it didn't really work formally for me. The final section with the piano section was great but seemed tagged on to the (more conventional) first section.

Debizet was OK but it seemed to promise much and deliver less. To a certain extent it didn't really get beyond the opening premise.
The same could be said for Idyllilly, which I have to say I found completely tedious.

All the works seem to suffer from a real problem with dealing with pacing and form.
I tried to relax and listen in a Cageian manner, but I became even more convinced that this is not how he wants us to hear the work (or more exactly, how the work wishes to be heard).
I've never heard the original pop Plunderphonics, so I'd like to know if it's any better than this.

The Chris Cutler improvisation didn't really grab me either. It seemed that there were certain ideas that had real promise, and had been designed as such, but due to the manner in which the piece was constructed, they never really had a chance to do anything. The fact that the source materials for the piece were largely the same pieces that had been used in the earlier Oswald Concerto didn't really help matters - there were too many sources to be obsessive, but not enough to disorientate. What was it trying to do? It seemed formally limp (and limping).
The balance between the trio and the orchestra seemed off. How was this when it was broadcast? The trio was over-amplified (or the mics were in the wrong place).

Having said all of this, it was great to hear something different, and to hear the BBCSO doing something different.
I've not been terribly inspired by H&N recently but there were links to my own music and thoughts about music in a way that there haven't been in recent shows.

Are we going to get Mr Worby over here at some point?
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