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Author Topic: a nation depressed with itself  (Read 1546 times)
calum da jazbo
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« Reply #15 on: 10:48:55, 19-05-2007 »

An alternative, but cogent, view of Brown and his drawbacks by Matthew Parris:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article1811270.ece

What is known if anything about his cultural and artistic interest?
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It's just a matter of time before we're late.
Tony Watson
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« Reply #16 on: 12:55:44, 19-05-2007 »

What is known if anything about his cultural and artistic interests?

I think to be fair to politicians, they can't win. Margaret Thatcher was criticized for showing no interest in the arts but no one seemed impressed by John Major's love for Anthony Trollope novels and cricket. There has also been a lot of sneering on another thread about David Mellor's interest in classical music (and, by implication, Michael Portillo's). For my part, I'm not impressed by Tony Blair's interest in guitars and pop music.
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calum da jazbo
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« Reply #17 on: 18:12:41, 19-05-2007 »

Don't disagree with you Tony W when it comes to their personal preferences, but I meant the question on a wider base, it seems to me to be high time that the contribution of the arts and culture to social and personal well being was more deeply understood by the political class. They always seem a so depressing decade or more out of touch with the evidence, incapable of articulating a positive stance and pursuing a positive policy. Indeed, being good on the arts probably means a carrer consigned to the sidelines as an eccentric but interesting politico - Banks, Smith etc. Art & Culture is a lot more important to our society than bloody casinos are to the exchequer.
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marbleflugel
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WWW
« Reply #18 on: 22:51:52, 19-05-2007 »

I have a feeling Calum that this will manifest as tacked-on spin. Brown professed a sudden admiration for the Arctic Monkeys or whoever in a grauniad interview recently, but his lack of natural people skills perhaps reflects the prospects for the axiom you so pertinently identify.Tessa Jowell's 'justifiction' for the arts (prefscdd by that for casinos) was ersatz philosophising but went no furtherf than target ideals I seem to recall. All she was essentially doing was 'justifying' her own post as a rhetorician.
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'...A  celebrity  is someone  who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'

Arnold Brown
calum da jazbo
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« Reply #19 on: 17:15:21, 19-12-2007 »

i am wearing the hat, it doesn't look like i will be eating it
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calum da jazbo
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« Reply #20 on: 18:58:44, 24-05-2008 »

 ...is the nation dealing with its depression through rage at its government?

it gives me no pleasure to say that Brown is scuppered - do you feel that he is?
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John W
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« Reply #21 on: 19:20:27, 24-05-2008 »

Well, the government has hardly put a foot right since he took the PM job.

And, not being sexist here, I'm getting fed up of seeing all those women ministers staring at the TV camera making excuses while sounding like some old dear down the post office  Grin

<duck-out-of-the-way emoticon>

oh this'll do,



or maybe this,

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Antheil
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« Reply #22 on: 19:25:38, 24-05-2008 »

calum, for what's is worth.  NuLabour is milking the middle class Chiianti-shire midddle class vote.  The 10p tax fiasco showed they know nothing about the low paid who do not have children under 16.  I went on to the Inland Revenue calculator, and if you were a singleton earning £12740 per annum you got £67 Tax Credit.   If you earned £12,500 you got jack shit.

The Government policy is that if you earn under £16,400 you are below the poverty level.

So, what do they do for you?  De Nada.

I was never so pleased at the bye-election results.  And I admit that as a past left winger activist.

I will not comment on JW's comments about Wimmin
« Last Edit: 11:03:08, 25-05-2008 by Antheil the Termite Lover » Logged

Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
rauschwerk
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« Reply #23 on: 09:42:26, 25-05-2008 »

Until this country gets a decent electoral system (how is it that PR is good enough for Scotland, Wales and London but not for the UK as a whole?) and a properly reformed second chamber I see no hope of improvement. I have finally decided to give up voting as my vote will never, ever, make any difference to the makeup of the House of Commons.

Who now remembers that, when the Tories abolished the then highest rate of income tax, Brown was so apoplectic that the Commons sitting had to be suspended? He seems to have had a brain transplant since then. The 10p tax band abolition was one of the most stupid acts by a Chancellor that I can remember - he only did it so that he could get cheered at the end of his last Budget speech by announcing a reduction in the standard rate of income tax. I suspect that even he had not thought through the implications. And I fear he is turning out to be a completely crap leader like John Major.

As for national depression, see the writings of Oliver James, who argues that one of the root causes is the increase in inequality of wealth and the decrease in social mobility. New 'Labour' have only continued, or even intensified, the policies of the last Tory government in encouraging these things.
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John W
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« Reply #24 on: 09:56:31, 25-05-2008 »


I will not comment on JW's comments about Wimmin

Anna, my comment wasn't about 'Wimmin' in general, it's just 2 or 3 particular female ministers, they just don't present themselves well, not like Mrs Thatcher could. Just seen a classic photo on TV of Harman standing behind an abortion voter, not seen it on the web yet.

I love women. I even married one! And last night I was on a night out (as appointed driver) with my missus so she could enjoy an evening with her friends. Quite unusual for me to sit in a pub for six hours, dring j2o's and sparkilng water (yeah, yeuccchh!) but had great conversations with each of her mates one at a time
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #25 on: 10:04:08, 25-05-2008 »


I will not comment on JW's comments about Wimmin

Anna, my comment wasn't about 'Wimmin' in general, it's just 2 or 3 particular female ministers, they just don't present themselves well, not like Mrs Thatcher could.
So how about Robin Cook? Or Nigel Lawson? Or Kenneth Clarke? Are you equally concerned by what they look like?

Quote
Just seen a classic photo on TV of Harman standing behind an abortion voter, not seen it on the web yet.
What exactly do you mean by an 'abortion voter'? Presumably an abortion campaigner, or protestor - but pro or anti?

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I love women. I even married one!
I've heard that before.

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And last night I was on a night out (as appointed driver) with my missus so she could enjoy an evening with her friends. Quite unusual for me to sit in a pub for six hours, dring j2o's and sparkilng water (yeah, yeuccchh!) but had great conversations with each of her mates one at a time
The sacrifices you make astound me. A round of applause is called for here.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
John W
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« Reply #26 on: 10:08:24, 25-05-2008 »

Thanks Ian. You know what it's like, you have to explain everything to a woman!
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richard barrett
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« Reply #27 on: 10:19:32, 25-05-2008 »

Hello Rauschwerk, haven't seen you around much recently.

Apathy among voters and arrogance among politicians feed off one another. These days people like George Bush and Boris Johnson can get elected by a "democratic" process because in most elections neither side has anything real to offer. Back in the 1960s (which I can just remember) elections were dominated by the parties setting out ways in which they would improve the lot of voters. Now, with globalisation and other factors reducing their leeway on economic policy to a matter of window-dressing, all they can do is encourage a climate of fear from which each party claims they can better "protect" us.

And much of this of course began during the Thatcher years. She may have "presented" herself well, though the sight of her face even now makes me sick to my stomach, but her ruthless dismantling of this country's infrastructure was I think the most catastrophic event to befall it since the second world war.

John, may I respectfully suggest that you are either out of order or pretending to be, neither of which is very amusing.
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John W
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« Reply #28 on: 10:32:24, 25-05-2008 »

Thanks Richard, funny how I get that Friday feeling on a Sunday morning
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rauschwerk
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« Reply #29 on: 10:40:28, 25-05-2008 »

Hi Richard. Suddenly felt the need to expel some bile, but was not feeling bilious about anything musical. You are spot on about globalisation, of course. In the Thatcher era, politicians seemed willing to surrender a great deal of their power to global capitalism, though they must have realised that there would be no going back. I think Thatcher and her supporters (and by the way the sound of her voice still provokes the same reaction in me as the sight of her face does in yours) twigged that, whatever else happened, it would be the end of socialism in this country. It's not clear to me that any of the major parties has an ideology any more - as you say, it all come down do window dressing so that the choice of party in an election is no more profound than the choice of shopping at Tesco, Sainsbury or Morrison.

I very much regret my electoral apathy. I believe that in a democracy (or should it be 'democracy') one has a moral duty to vote, but now I think: Oh sod it, what's the bloody point!
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