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Author Topic: Time to privatise BBC Television?  (Read 1196 times)
Swan_Knight
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« on: 17:32:35, 12-06-2007 »

Andrew Marr's disgraceful 'popular history' programme is surely the last straw. 

I can't abide this egregious man at the best of times, but last week he told the nation that the Grosvenor Square anti-Vietnam demonstration took place in March 1967, when any mildly informed person knows that it took place precisely one year later.

What did E. H. Carr say about historians getting their facts right? You can't be applauded for accuracy when it's a duty.

Whereas, Mr. Marr and his editorial team deserve to be sacked for their spectacular innacuracy.

If the Corporation can't be relied upon to get basic things like this right, what is the point of the licence fee?

As of now, I've joined the 'flog the Beeb' brigade.  We might as well - it's nothing special any more.
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #1 on: 17:59:44, 12-06-2007 »

But there was more than one Grosvenor Square anti-Vietnam demonstration, and such events took place in 1967 and 1968.
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #2 on: 18:25:03, 12-06-2007 »

Maybe so, but the 'biggie', which involved mounted police, Tariq Ali, etc and which gave rise to the Stones' 'Street Fighting Man' was the March 1968 gig.

There are eighteen year olds who know this.

But not BBC journalists, apparently.
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #3 on: 19:20:56, 12-06-2007 »

I saw the episode last week, though I cannot remember exactly what was said. But if they did get the year wrong, I don't think that's enough reason by itself to sack the production team and sell off the BBC. I don't think the programme is disgraceful at all, but rather good. What a poor economy we had - especially compared with France, Germany and Japan - for so long after the second world war.
« Last Edit: 20:28:11, 12-06-2007 by Tony Watson » Logged
tonybob
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« Reply #4 on: 19:59:36, 12-06-2007 »

so....they should be hanged then?
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sososo s & i.
Swan_Knight
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« Reply #5 on: 23:48:21, 12-06-2007 »

I don't think the programme is disgraceful at all, but rather good.

I'm sorry, Tony, but there's no way this programme/series is anything other than extremely poor - from every conceivable point of view.

Leaving aside Marr's ape-like writhings and contortions, time and again he gets his facts WRONG:

* Dudley Moore was not a 'toff comedian' - he was born on a council estate in Dagenham.
* 'Look Back In Anger' was not an attack on the Macmillan government (LBIA was premiered in 1956 and Macmillan didn't become PM until January 1957).
* Macmillan never actually told Mrs. Thatcher that privatising state industries was 'selling the family silver'. 

But why go on....?

And, finally, Marr couldn't  resist that old journalistic chestnut relating to the outcome of the 1974 (February) election:
'Ted Heath asked: 'Who governs Britain?' The voters replied: 'Not you, mate!'

Please......

What makes things worse is that this series is apparently a 'hit' with the people who matter (newspaper critics, opinion-formers and Marr's fellow scumbag journos). Presumably they don't see the faults, because they're as ignorant as to the true facts as he is.

But maybe this is the shape of the future: forget facts, forget interpretations.  Let's just have 'History by anecdote'.  And apocryphal anecdote at that!

Nobody associated with this so-called 'programme' deserves to be gainfully employed.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #6 on: 14:10:15, 13-06-2007 »

* 'Look Back In Anger' was not an attack on the Macmillan government (LBIA was premiered in 1956 and Macmillan didn't become PM until January 1957).

I thought Marr referred to it as one among many assaults on 'the Establishment', didn't he? 

* Macmillan never actually told Mrs. Thatcher that privatising state industries was 'selling the family silver'. 

You can hear the old codger (reprising his famous vaudeville impression of Peter Cook) doing just that here: http://trg.org.uk/aaa/macmillan1985.php  I don't detect much ambiguity about whom his remarks are aimed at. 

I agree with Tony. The series is obviously a 'Television Essay', with all the restrictions and constraints that entails, but I think it is turning out a pretty good one. I don't agree with all Marr's judgements obviously, and wouldn't expect to (I was bridling at some of the comments he made about the 1984 Miners Strike last night, for example), but almost everything he said was interesting and worth listening to, whether you agreed with it or not.
« Last Edit: 14:12:39, 13-06-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
thompson1780
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« Reply #7 on: 15:09:53, 13-06-2007 »

I enjoy Andrew Marr's programme.

For me, History is not primarily about getting the facts and dates absolutely right, but more about understanding how past events have shaped the world, how they continue to influence things today, and how we can learn from them.

Of course, getting dates and facts right is vital for a Historian to ensure that he or she has got causes and effects in right and has not come up with a false conclusion about why the world is the way it is.

But if getting dates right was all there was to history, it would be a version of train spotting.

For me, Andrew Marr gives a very new outlook on why we are the country that we are.  That's what matters.

Thanks

Tommo


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Ian Pace
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« Reply #8 on: 17:17:50, 13-06-2007 »

I've found Marr's series illuminating despite the handful of mistakes. On the subject of post-war British history in general, I know lots of books about the 1945-1951 period (would particularly recommend those of Hennessy and Addison), and a few about the wider period (Marwick's books are very good), but not so many on specific periods after then. Just bought the second volume of Hennessy's post-war history - wondered if anyone had read the books of Dominic Sandbrook on the 50s and 60s (I haven't), and if so, what they thought of them?
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eruanto
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« Reply #9 on: 19:51:53, 13-06-2007 »

This programme is very useful for people of my generation, because it's all too recent for my parents who unbelievably actually LIVED through this stuff!! Therefore this era and those events never get talked about; it's useful for me to actually know the details of what went on in those years which are  actually not too long ago (however ancient it may seem to my eyes...  Roll Eyes)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #10 on: 23:39:10, 13-06-2007 »

wondered if anyone had read the books of Dominic Sandbrook on the 50s and 60s (I haven't), and if so, what they thought of them?

I read You never had it so good last autumn when I was on jury service and had hours and hours to read.  It was brill - dead gossipy,which you might find a bit frivolous,  Ian.  It was dealing with the period when I was a nipper, so I didn't understand at the time.  Harold Macmillan - what a gent.  I could never bring myself to follow my father and actually vote Tory, but how wonderful to find a PM who thought reading Pride and Prejudice was more worthwhile than endless politicing.

Although possibly right of centre, I fear our friend Swan Knight would find plenty to fume about.

It was good to have a blow(job) by blow account of the Profumo scandel and the Lady Chat trial which I only heard whispered about when I was young.  (Time is Now can quote the relevant P Larkin quote.)

I can't wait to get the next volume.  (I am reading Dostoyevsky's The Idiot at the moment, and the next long book is on the far horizon.)
« Last Edit: 08:49:57, 14-06-2007 by Don Basilio » Logged

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Don Basilio
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« Reply #11 on: 08:53:53, 14-06-2007 »

wondered if anyone had read the books of Dominic Sandbrook on the 50s and 60s (I haven't), and if so, what they thought of them?

Two anecdotes I remember from Sambrook:

After the Suez debacle, Anthony Eden took a cruise, and was much taken by impressed by a beefy young steward who regularly won the onboard boxing competitions.  (No suggestion of sex, just he personally liked the guy.)  The steward was John Prescott.

Reggie Maudling was asked what sort of whiskies he liked, to which he replied "Large ones."
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #12 on: 23:19:57, 15-06-2007 »


[/quote]



Although possibly right of centre, I fear our friend Swan Knight would find plenty to fume about.


[/quote]

I know that's how I come across, and I probably am....yet, for some strange reason, whenever I enter polling booth, I find myself voting Labour.

I've dipped into Sambrook's volume.....fun, but - as you say - very frivolous.  A more interesting book on the politics of this period - focusing on Jeremy Thorpe in particular - is 'Rinkagate' by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose: absolutely shocking and enthralling (and strong negative advertising for the Liberal Party, as was).

'The Idiot' is the Dostoyevsky I struggled with most....I think my experience is fairly typical.  How are you finding it, Don B?



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Tony Watson
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« Reply #13 on: 12:27:04, 16-06-2007 »

I was looking at my wallchart of British prime ministers that came free with the Guardian today and thinking about what we look for in a prime minister through the ages.

We notable exceptions of course, we favoured members of the aristocracy, then those from "well-connected" families, those who went to famous public schools, then grammar school types (Wilson to Thatcher) and now it's people with hair. (I sometimes wish William Hague had become prime minister as he would have been the first from a comprehensive school.)

Of course, when I say that we "favoured", we often got little to choose between or didn't even have the vote.

Being more serious, I did enjoy the light shed on the Harold Wilson years, which I was a little too young to understand at the time, and why he was disliked even by many in his own party.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #14 on: 13:15:01, 16-06-2007 »

I was looking at my wallchart of British prime ministers that came free with the Guardian today and thinking about what we look for in a prime minister through the ages.

We notable exceptions of course, we favoured members of the aristocracy, then those from "well-connected" families, those who went to famous public schools, then grammar school types (Wilson to Thatcher) and now it's people with hair. (I sometimes wish William Hague had become prime minister as he would have been the first from a comprehensive school.)

Note that none of Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher or Major were privately educated. Blair is the first public school Prime Minister since Alex Douglas-Home - New Labour bucked the trend in that respect!
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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