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time_is_now
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« Reply #1 on: 12:17:33, 04-07-2007 » |
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How do you define 'evil' in non-religious terms, Lord B?
Of course, you could argue that a whole lot of very bad things (including 'blowing things up', since you mention it) have been fairly directly enabled by progress in Dawkins' own preferred walk of life, science ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #2 on: 12:19:24, 04-07-2007 » |
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modern medicine is a product of science
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #3 on: 12:21:40, 04-07-2007 » |
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Arguably, science is a product of religion.
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #4 on: 12:33:58, 04-07-2007 » |
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Arguably, science is a product of religion.
Modern science developed in Christian and Islamic cultures. Both religious traditions accept the view that the universe is a unity under a guiding providence. Hence it was thought possible to investigate natural phenomenon and discover consistent behaviour. As I understand the Hindu mentality it is that this world is a delusion, and existence is cyclical and multi-faceted, so consistency is not to be expected. The study of scientific laws derives from a specific religious insight. |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #5 on: 12:39:33, 04-07-2007 » |
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Interested to read that Wiki precis of the Dawkins programme m'lord. Many of the things that he finds disturbing and worrying, I also find disturbing and worrying. Most of it is about organised religion, not about religion itself, and the brief examination of what the Bible seems to be, to my mind, balanced by the comments by Richard Harries. I have always had problems with organised religion which mainly comes down to questions of power, but I don't think that this necessarily means that there is anything wrong with religion itself. We might want to suggest that 'politics is evil' since it could well be argued that political ideology is behind every single conflict since time began...  |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #6 on: 13:07:11, 04-07-2007 » |
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It's a bit simplistic to blame religion for all society's evils anyway. There are just as many atrocities, crimes, evil deeds in Communist countries. Man seems to need an excuse to be wicked so they commit these deeds in the name of : politics, religion, oppression....whatever. The fact is, it isn't religion that is evil, it's people. Not all of them of course thank heavens but unfortunately it's always been the minority that have spoiled it for the rest through history.
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #7 on: 13:20:15, 04-07-2007 » |
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Milly - I agree with every word.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #8 on: 13:28:55, 04-07-2007 » |
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That's good sense, Milly.
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #9 on: 13:32:17, 04-07-2007 » |
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BUT... we should still dump religion, as a concept, to free up time, for a better world.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #10 on: 13:36:08, 04-07-2007 » |
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BUT... we should still dump religion, as a concept, to free up time, for a better world.
Unfortunately I think it would just free up time for another sort of wrong-doing. Don't forget when you dismiss religion as being worthless that there are literally millions of peace-loving people who follow religion who only want to do what is right and live a happy, peaceful life. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #11 on: 13:48:08, 04-07-2007 » |
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BUT... we should still dump religion, as a concept, to free up time, for a better world.
The plain fact is that most people need something to believe in, be it a religion per se or a fundamentalist ecological organisation (to take an example at random). It's rarely the pure concepts that are evil: it's the nutters who hijack the original concepts and subvert them into excuses for their own social and political ends, or worse still fashion them into tools for controlling the suggestible into spreading and performing the evil for them. |
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burning dog
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« Reply #12 on: 14:16:34, 04-07-2007 » |
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Politicans and Church leaders can exploit mankinds need for ritual and hope for a better life, in this world and beyond. Milly makes a good point about the Soviet Union. I doubt if Karl Marx hoped to have his picture hoisted along in a parade featuring WMDs, he became a quasi-religious figure, same with Lenin's tomb, though HE may have been more comfortable with that  . I heard Dawkins lambast people for saying God help us (not in a blaphemous way), he seems to lack a bit of human empathy. Science will not help the world, politically or morally, while vested interests are satisfied with the staus quo. I think it's best to live as if there isn't an afterlife even if you hope for one. |
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« Last Edit: 14:28:27, 04-07-2007 by burning dog »
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #13 on: 14:31:30, 04-07-2007 » |
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BUT... we should still dump religion, as a concept, to free up time, for a better world.
At the least, religion is a metaphor for life being living at all, for which there is no scientific proof. We only exist to pass on the genes to the next generation. (So Dawkins dismisses the value of the likes of me and time is now as aberrations as clearly as any fundamentalist American.) Whether you commit yourself to the stories, rituals and communities of traditional religious communities or not, it is still a matter of existential faith that life is worth living. |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #14 on: 15:30:40, 04-07-2007 » |
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dawkins tells the truth
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