Not at all.

Yes

That's true.

Thinking about it more closely, maybe the only real usage of that word I have issues with is when it's has an ideology or belief as its subject.


Oh Thanks heavens it wasn't.  I only read that book last year and, to be honest, rather rushed through the more religious chapters, finding them a little tedious.  Just lots of wishy-washy stuff in my religious education.  I think I should clarify what I said about doublespeak as well (I think I may not have worded it correctly at the time and in my response I was distracted).  The contradiction I was getting was getting was more that people would say that story X was true, that story Y was true, and yet, when questioned about it directly say it wasn't.  And then revert back to the old register.

Thinking about the Bible as an interesting moral read again, I think it clashes so much with a lot of current humanistic beliefs that it doesn't really stand up there for me as a good consistent example of moral reasoning.  Saying that, I'm not an well-read when it comes to ethical or moral texts, so I can't think of any good canonical set of books that would act as a comprehensive replacement

Milly, have you considered setting up a "Richard Dawkins is evil" thread?   

Oh DB I really quite like that CD quote!

Just to digress slightly; the most inspiring, compassionate, ethical man I have heard of and whose words I have read is an atheist.

He doesn't insult or belittle people who disagree with him. He is open to all other religions and cultures and accepts them non-judgementally. He accepts that you can learn things of importance from both science and religions. He isn't a radical or an extremist of any persuasion but he will explain his beliefs with infinite patience if you let him.

He is undoubtedly "spiritual" and yet he is (by his own admission) an atheist.





He is His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.

Hi increpatio (I haven't worked out the origin/meaning of that name yet - any clues?)

Religious texts are not necessarily primarily moral - Have you read the Bhagavad Gita?  (Ghandi's bedside reading) It includes a guide to conduct, certainly, but only as a by-product, as it were, of the insight into the nature of life.

The book of the Bible I use most are the Psalms, which certainly are not a moral text book, rather a series of songs of praise, thanksgiving and lament.

The Gospel of John has hardly any specific moral teaching at all.

There is an ethical element in most religions, of course, but I think that is secondary to the primary element which is what is nowadays called by the word "spirituality" (a word I find suspect, but it will do.)

Interesting you found the religious bits of Portrait "wishy-washy".  I found them terrifying!! 

I didn't know that - thanks, tonybob!

It's also a rhetorical figure of rebuke, as listed under the heading 'Figures which directly address someone' in the following list:

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/Groupings/by%20Author/Sonnino.htm

Oh Gawd, what a list. I thought I was a good boy for remembering 'litotes'.

Or, perhaps, to put it in a nutshell:

"People say I'm narrow-minded. I can afford to be. I'm right."


"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy, Horatio"

That's extremely well put, if you don't mind me saying so. Incidentally, there's an excellent chapter on the same theme in this wonderful book: