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Author Topic: Free speech in the USA  (Read 1817 times)
time_is_now
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« Reply #60 on: 21:04:13, 21-09-2007 »

Ahem.

Now that I look again it does look like a spoof. I won't bang on about the issues involved any more as it will only make me look foolish, except to say that I stick by my original comment which is that although this article obviously oversimplifies in every respect (more so than I originally acknowledged), I don't have an issue with the basic approach and I think it would be far too easy to write off whole chunks of the feminist project just because they're so easily parodiable (which I did say before, even if I didn't cotton on that this itself was a parody).

I think we should get back to discussing the other things that were brought up in this thread, not in order to save my face and Ian's but because we were already some way off-topic and there are still important things to be discussed about democracy, free speech and policing.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
ahinton
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« Reply #61 on: 21:20:19, 21-09-2007 »

I'm interested to note that no women (except Veronika) have yet commented on it, negatively or positively
Good point - I'd be very interested to know what any women who post here think, rather than us men being the only ones to discuss it.
Moi aussi!

In The Beauty Myth, she had many important things to say about how women are exploited by the beauty industry who are only interested in extracting maximum profits. I'm just surprised that she doesn't seem to at least consider the possibility that this process might occur in most forms of retail, and that the people pulling the strings might be the producers rather than the consumers?
Another good point!. Whilst not against absolutely every aspect of "consumerism" (much as I loathe the term and almost all of what it has been made to stand for) on principle, I am (I hope) as aware as anyone that there are people out there who, without any external encouragement, will think nothing of taking unfair, unreasonable and unpleasant advantage of anything and everything, the reasonable desires of the consumer being no exception; this kind of thing in practice muddies many waters and, I think, encourages the formation of deeply entrenched positions about the subject to the point that any sense that what may work in the world of retailing simply won't work at all in what a lot of us are involved in just doesn't even figure any more. Sorry, I'm making a depressing comment, I know, but it has largely come to pass that "market forces" has almost become inseparable from exploitation and this, I feel, has been and remains deeply damaging to the two worlds of legitimate retailing practice and artistic endeavours. There are people out there genuinely trying to eke a living from legitimately selling their wares, yet they are inevitably drawn, however unwittingly, into the more unpalatable areas of "market forces exploitation" in the perceptions of many.

Sorry for the waffle!

Best,

Alistair
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #62 on: 21:27:08, 21-09-2007 »

In case anyone's interested, this was the article where I first recall seeing the Naomi Wolf article alluded to. Mind you, one shouldn't trust Suzanne Moore as a source..... Smiley

Whatever, arguments trying to glorify consumerism by linking it to gender politics are certainly not uncommon, such as this, for example (note how nearly all of those opining on this issue are male retailers).
« Last Edit: 21:43:35, 21-09-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
strinasacchi
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« Reply #63 on: 21:53:30, 21-09-2007 »


I've been looking at a couple blogs about the University of Complacency in the Face of Police Brutality Florida.  Truly depressing.  So many comments along the lines of, "he had a history of practical jokes;" "he knew the rules, and he went over his time limit;" "he showed no respect."  Since when is the right to free speech contingent upon good manners?

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #64 on: 21:57:14, 21-09-2007 »


I've been looking at a couple blogs about the University of Complacency in the Face of Police Brutality Florida.  Truly depressing.  So many comments along the lines of, "he had a history of practical jokes;" "he knew the rules, and he went over his time limit;" "he showed no respect."  Since when is the right to free speech contingent upon good manners?
That's hideous - reminds me of a report I saw during apartheid-era South Africa when one white woman was being interviewed about her support for the reinforcement of the Group Areas act (which enforced full segregation), and defending it on the grounds that the black people who otherwise might be in their neighbourhood 'are noisy'.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
martle
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« Reply #65 on: 22:51:48, 21-09-2007 »

Well! Blimey trousers. If that's a parody, it's an exceptionally good one. Hats off!

Perhaps an opportunity to get back on-topic?  Wink
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Green. Always green.
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