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increpatio
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« Reply #45 on: 19:26:38, 21-09-2007 » |
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Where, for example, does one meet someone who doesn't like pubs or drinking particularly?
Public lavatories are quite popular amongst certain demographics I've heard. (sorry) Much the same, if not worse in Dublin. No cafes really opened after ten in the city at all (well, one, but it's not exactly relaxing). (It is possible to crash some hotel lounges however if you get in early enough, however). |
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #46 on: 19:27:32, 21-09-2007 » |
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It might be more interesting to consider why women are more comfortable in shops on their own or in small numbers, than, say, the pub. What public spaces are there for us that we feel relaxed and safe in? Maybe there aren't as many as there should be. Indeed, and although such a sensibly-phrased question is not Wolf's style, at least not in the article we're talking about, it has now been raised as a result of reading that article, which must say something. Thanks for joining this discussion, strinasacchi! Just thinking about your question, might it say something about the relative dearth of truly public spaces, in the sense of those that are provided and maintained purely in the public interest, rather than for commercial motivations? With the decline of the best quality civic amenities - libraries, museums, galleries, or others - does that not leave only the pub, the shopping mall, and so on? One thing that always strikes me when meeting new people from abroad in particular - there are so few decent places to meet that aren't drinking establishments (very few nice proper cafes, for example, unlike in just about every other country I've been to). Where, for example, does one meet someone who doesn't like pubs or drinking particularly? This is a really interesting issue - it brings to mind that whenever the media (or New Labour politicians burbling about regeneration!) want to describe a community as "vibrant" they always talk in terms of clubs, pubs or restaurants; never in terms of, say, parks or allotments or libraries. Not only does this amount to a privatisation of public space - the fallacy is exposed by the fact that these same "vibrant" communities (like the centre of my own home town of Brighton) effectively become "no go" areas for great swathes of the population on Friday or Saturday nights. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #47 on: 19:28:44, 21-09-2007 » |
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Much the same, if not worse in Dublin. No cafes really opened after ten in the city at all (well, one, but it's not exactly relaxing). (It is possible to crash some hotel lounges however if you get in early enough, however). Ah, but if you haven't passed the citizenship test that shows you can handle at least 10 pints of Guinness between lunchtime and the evening, then there's probably little point getting off the plane at Dublin?  (I'll be there again in November, by the way, would be great to meet you) |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #48 on: 19:40:57, 21-09-2007 » |
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Just had another look at the article. Maybe what Wolf is really complaining about isn't anti-consumerism in itself, but how it's expressed by the "horde of bearded boys in badly-cut hemp trousers." Maybe she has a point that the activists who claim to represent anti-consumerist ideals are actually choosing their targets based on gender prejudices. Those bearded boys may be happy to smash up Bloomingdales, but would they be just as happy to smash up HMV? Or HappyHempBoutique?
Unfortunately, by choosing to focus on that side of the question, she ignores or corrupts the concept of anti-consumerism in itself, and the issue (as time_is_now phrased it) of the division between labour of production and consumption - which is much more interesting - or at least separate from her beef.
Who are these bearded boys? Was this article a response to an actual incident? The only smashing I've heard about has been McDonalds and Starbucks - I don't think you can read misogyny into that.
(I always thought knocking down bowling pins had phallic connotations, not misogynist ones. And I see nothing sinister about mini-skirts myself.)
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While writing this, I missed Ian Pace's point about public spaces! Yes, very good point. It always depresses me to think about the man who invented the shopping mall. Don't remember the details, but I had heard he was an Austrian who emigrated to the States and wanted to re-create something of Viennese street and cafe culture. He designed a space with plenty of broad, car-free "streets" along which people could stroll, with benches and trees and tables to encourage people to loiter, sit, have a chat, game of chess, whatever. Then the businessmen got a hold of his plans, and decided to make the benches uncomfortable enough to drive everyone into the shops...
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #49 on: 20:02:46, 21-09-2007 » |
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Guys. I hate to tell you this... ... the eXile is my local freesheet. It's a Moscow-based free newspaper, written by American journalism-course graduates who couldn't get a job in America. They specialise in writing spoofs, parodies and pranks. I fear you've been taken in hook, line & sinker.   Their most illustrious prank (in their heyday when they were funnier and more energetic) was spoofing an entire issue of the rival Moscow Times, and placing it in the Moscow Times's distribution-bins all around the city. Outraged readers found a headline story about "Yeltsin photographed leaving bordello". Maybe this is proof that you shouldn't believe all you find on the Internet - or perhaps that it's impossible to spoof certain styles? One thing is for certain - the real Naomi Klein wouldn't be found writing in a publication whose House Rules specify that Letters To The Editor from female readers "must include a picture of your snapper". |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Colin Holter
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« Reply #50 on: 20:05:55, 21-09-2007 » |
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 You got me. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #51 on: 20:10:32, 21-09-2007 » |
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Well, if I was Naomi Wolf and this article had appeared, I would put out some disclaimers saying that I hadn't written it - wouldn't most people do the same? This has been around for a while, and I've never heard anything to suggest it's other than authentic?
(Naomi Wolf did, after all, call in lawyers after a spoof interview with Ali G)
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« Last Edit: 20:15:38, 21-09-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #52 on: 20:18:17, 21-09-2007 » |
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Oops.
Ahem.
So, what's happened to those private security guards with itchy tazer fingers? Anyone heard anything?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #53 on: 20:22:47, 21-09-2007 » |
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If Naomi got into any correspondence with Mark Ames (who runs The eXile) I would imagine she was asked to fall in line with the House Rule mentioned above, before her complaint would be considered  You ought to bear in mind you are dealing with an editor who ran a "which whore I screwed this week" series for six months (with reviews, prices and ratings). There are some who would call it the inheritance of Kerouac, and there are others who would call it the logical extension of the News Of The World. I fall into the latter category. In their heyday the sheer daring of their escapades (such as spoofing the Moscow Times) was a kind of justification of their methodology... these days it's just vulgar schlock. There used to be one star writer on the paper, Matt Taibbi - but he's long since moved on to greater things. [Declaration Of Interest - I write for their competitors]. |
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« Last Edit: 20:28:48, 21-09-2007 by Reiner Torheit »
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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richard barrett
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« Reply #54 on: 20:27:35, 21-09-2007 » |
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Ha! What did I tell you? I should never have allowed Members to cause me to doubt my first instincts. Lesson learned.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #55 on: 20:34:00, 21-09-2007 » |
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The idea of a spoof "diary" isn't at all new - Private Eye still run one once-per-issue, don't they? (I don't mean The St Albion Parish News, or whatever it is now Gordy's running the show... I mean the spoof diary of some major celeb that appears towards the back.
But meantime, who's been tasered today, I wonder, and for what?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #56 on: 20:36:25, 21-09-2007 » |
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If Naomi got into any correspondence with Mark Ames (who runs The eXile) I would imagine she was asked to fall in line with the House Rule mentioned above, before her complaint would be considered. You ought to bear in mind you are dealing with an editor who ran a "which whore I screwed this week" series for six months (with reviews, prices and ratings). One wonders, in that case, how Member Pace stumbled across the link in the first place ... |
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increpatio
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« Reply #57 on: 20:41:13, 21-09-2007 » |
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Much the same, if not worse in Dublin. No cafes really opened after ten in the city at all (well, one, but it's not exactly relaxing). (It is possible to crash some hotel lounges however if you get in early enough, however). Ah, but if you haven't passed the citizenship test that shows you can handle at least 10 pints of Guinness between lunchtime and the evening, then there's probably little point getting off the plane at Dublin? I can see the Guinness Brewery from my bedroom window in the distance, It has a really noble air about it. Indeed, I live in a new house in the midst of old artisan-cottages built by one of these British Monarchs back in the days, for craftsmen, artists, and Guinness brewery vworkers. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #58 on: 20:45:19, 21-09-2007 » |
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If Naomi got into any correspondence with Mark Ames (who runs The eXile) I would imagine she was asked to fall in line with the House Rule mentioned above, before her complaint would be considered. You ought to bear in mind you are dealing with an editor who ran a "which whore I screwed this week" series for six months (with reviews, prices and ratings). One wonders, in that case, how Member Pace stumbled across the link in the first place ... Actually, I first came across that a while ago, searching for it after reading it mentioned by some journalist in print. There are spoofs, of course, but I'm at the very least surprised that I haven't come across anything from Naomi Wolf at least disclaiming that article. It's of course possible that the paper set her up to write on that, publishing it so that she would look foolish...? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #59 on: 20:56:49, 21-09-2007 » |
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viz the letter "Grateful Serb" on the page below (etc ad infinitum) http://old.exile.ru/letters/sic67.html |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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