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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #15 on: 16:45:44, 20-09-2007 » |
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And, TRJ, these weren't actual police officers. Their actions were deplorable, and they've been suspended and there's an investigation which seems will likely result in their firing -- but, let's be clear, they're glorified security guards.
Er, I was careful to call them "campus security guys" ... sorry sorry ... should've said "incre" ... now corrected. |
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TimR-J
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« Reply #16 on: 16:52:07, 20-09-2007 » |
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No problem.
I agree with what I think you're getting at in general though - for all that this is a very unpleasant incident, in the grand scheme of injustices and atrocities currently occuring every day (from barring individuals from entering the country for no good reason, right the way up to Guantanomo and extraordinary rendition) this seems like a storm in a teacup to be drawing all the attention.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #17 on: 16:54:34, 20-09-2007 » |
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He was certainly not very well behaved No he wasn't, but I remember a time when "bad behaviour" was par for the course among students I remember such a time, too. Not sure we want the days of 'tin soldiers and Nixon' back, though. They didn't use tazers as I recall. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #18 on: 17:20:56, 20-09-2007 » |
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A great moment of political activism and revolution this was not, Richard.
I hope you're not suggesting that anything less than "great moments of political activism and revolution" isn't worth bothering with! I'm not sure that the fact that they weren't "real" police makes any difference. As Tim says, in the grand scheme of things this incident is pretty insignificant, but any opportunity to put the pressure on politicians, particularly when they're complicit in those larger ongoing atrocities, which Kerry is, by omission at the very least, should I think still be taken; it may have been taken on this occasion by a conspiracy nut with a hankering after self-publicity, but where were the serious activists at that university who should have been giving Kerry a hard time? |
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increpatio
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« Reply #19 on: 18:18:49, 20-09-2007 » |
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OOPS. I should get my facts straight, clearly. Well that's not quite as bad then; just a bunch of hicks with itchy fingers, right?
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #20 on: 18:25:17, 20-09-2007 » |
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OOPS. I should get my facts straight, clearly. Well that's not quite as bad then; just a bunch of hicks with itchy fingers, right?
Not sure about the 'hicks' part. (Among the many oddities of American geographical-cultural identities is the fact that Florida, while clearly farther south than any other state, is not actually part of "The South" (though there are some scattered bits (largely but not exclusively in the panhandle) that have some stereotypically "southern" traits).) |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #21 on: 18:33:32, 20-09-2007 » |
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Putting pressure on politicians might seem a laudable end in its own right, but questions remain as to (a) what type of pressure, and (b) whether it is effective or not. The latter can of course take various forms, including simply alerting the wider public to issues, though in the wrong hands can equally alienate that public. Pressure for, say, the reintroduction of the death penalty, castrating rapists, hounding sex offenders out of neighbourhoods after they have served their sentences, or that from some crazed religious leaders against homosexuality, or for banning and burning books, can all constitute political pressure, but I don't regard any of them as valuable activity.
Just being 'against' whatever particular politicians stand for, espouse, or have enacted, is by no means necessarily a good thing in itself. After all, the far right are equally 'against' a good deal of mainstream political opinion.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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increpatio
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« Reply #22 on: 18:44:50, 20-09-2007 » |
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Just being 'against' whatever particular politicians stand for, espouse, or have enacted, is by no means necessarily a good thing in itself. No. However, I have a feeling that many people (though not necessarily on this forum) would view the above as implicitly discouraging the critical assessment that is rather important. Of course one might also say that some people should rather prioritize thoughtfully and not just rant on about refuse charges c.. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #23 on: 18:54:49, 20-09-2007 » |
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Just being 'against' whatever particular politicians stand for, espouse, or have enacted, is by no means necessarily a good thing in itself. No. However, I have a feeling that many people (though not necessarily on this forum) would view the above as implicitly discouraging the critical assessment that is rather important. Of course one might also say that some people should rather prioritize thoughtfully and not just rant on about refuse charges c.. Critical assessment is of course generally a very important thing (and that can include right-wing critical assessment as well); ultimately it requires the positing of alternatives, which themselves also need to be subject to an equal degree of critical scrutiny. I was referring above to the type of politics that only knows what it opposes and offers no positive alternatives. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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richard barrett
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« Reply #25 on: 12:21:47, 21-09-2007 » |
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That's not offtopic at all, it's evidence that liberal journalists like Naomi Wolf are finally beginning to say the things that writers with more coherent analytical methods have been saying for a few years now. Her concluding remarks are still somewhat naive: Of course, the United States is not vulnerable to the violent, total closing-down of the system that followed Mussolini's march on Rome or Hitler's roundup of political prisoners. Our democratic habits are too resilient, and our military and judiciary too independent, for any kind of scenario like that. While this may or may not be the case, I don't think there's really any evidence to support it. What are these "democratic habits"? The participation of a fairly small proportion of the population in a vastly expensive exercise in competitive public relations every four years? |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #26 on: 12:41:00, 21-09-2007 » |
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I lost all faith in anything Naomi Wolf has to say after this article. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #27 on: 13:11:30, 21-09-2007 » |
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I lost all faith in anything Naomi Wolf has to say after this article. Too right. I don't suppose it's meant as some kind of tasteless joke?  |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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richard barrett
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« Reply #28 on: 13:28:51, 21-09-2007 » |
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I lost all faith in anything Naomi Wolf has to say after this article. Too right. I don't suppose it's meant as some kind of tasteless joke? It reads like a spoof to me. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #29 on: 13:54:50, 21-09-2007 » |
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I lost all faith in anything Naomi Wolf has to say after this article. Too right. I don't suppose it's meant as some kind of tasteless joke? I'm pretty sure it's serious, or at least was at the time of writing. Humour and Naomi Wolf don't exactly go together, anyhow. And I've never seen anything from her remotely denying that article. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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