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Reiner Torheit
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« on: 08:56:54, 20-12-2007 » |
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THE INDEPENDENT: The "cultural elite" brought up on opera and the higher arts, which supposedly turns up its nose at anything as vulgar as a pop song or mainstream television, does not exist, according to research published by Oxford University academics. Full Article: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3266586.ece |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #1 on: 09:16:40, 20-12-2007 » |
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Well... I don't fit into any of those categories  I'm not a Univore, in that I prefer "high" culture to popular culture (however I don't exclude either of the above). In a way I aspire to be an Omnivore, but can't say I am one, as for financial reasons and being spoilt for choice I end up spending all my time and disposable income on my first choice, which is classical music. What I experience of "popular" culture is largely that which I can experience for free - I do watch a fair amount of mainstream TV, and very occasionally go to the cinema (normally to see mainstream feature films); I've never been to a large-scale rock or pop concert. I can't call myself a Paucivore because I spend every spare moment doing something cultural. (However I very rarely go to art galleries, and don't find them terribly interesting.) I am certainly not an Inactive. There must be quite a lot of people on this forum who, like me, are none of the above. In fact I'd suggest that NOBODY on here can be anything other than that or an Omnivore. |
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #2 on: 09:36:39, 20-12-2007 » |
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When I read their categories, it seemed to me that the conclusions had been written and the "research" was done to prove them?
By failing to even provide a category for a group of people whose preference is for high culture, it seems to me that this research is so flawed as to be of very questionable worth.
Of course, it might well be that in terms of numbers, those who had higher cultural preferences weren't numerous enough to justify a group for them - but I find that a questionable way to proceed. Over on the for3 boards, for example, are posters who would not fit the categories in the conclusions of the Study's results.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #3 on: 09:43:36, 20-12-2007 » |
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It's like all virtually ratings systems, though, isn't it? In attempting to divide a line up into notional separate bands, it completely ignores the fact that not only do the bands overlap, but that there may be other lines with different priorities. It's a gross over-simplification, and as such pretty worthless to anything other than a government statistics unit.  |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #4 on: 09:49:17, 20-12-2007 » |
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I smelt the unpleasant odour of the Dumbdown Rat in the conclusions, Ron - an odour that justifies (with Conclusions From Oxford, no less) current Government policy for the Arts.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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increpatio
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« Reply #5 on: 09:56:17, 20-12-2007 » |
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It's a gross over-simplification, and as such pretty worthless to anything other than a government statistics unit. 'ey! Don't be dissing statisticians! Paucivores
People who consume a 'limited' range of cultural activities. Enjoy some form of music, film or television but not art galleries. Heaven forbid! Gotta be careful about dem art galleries! What would have been interesting would be to see charts giving the relation between education (given that 'class', they say, has little to do with it) and the particular interests, and also maybe to see how interests vary with wealth (irrespective of 'status'). I'll have to check out the original article first before saying more. Ah, here's the actual research page, for those who want more detailed info: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0006/status.html |
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« Last Edit: 10:01:16, 20-12-2007 by increpatio »
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increpatio
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« Reply #6 on: 10:11:18, 20-12-2007 » |
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By failing to even provide a category for a group of people whose preference is for high culture, it seems to me that this research is so flawed as to be of very questionable worth.
Well they say that such people simply do not exist in any large proportion anymore! Rather than cultural stratification mapping straightforwardly onto social stratification, the
cultural consumption of individuals in higher social strata differs from that of individuals in lower strata chiefly in that it is greater and much wider in its range — comprising not only more ‘high-brow’ culture but in fact more ‘middle-brow’ and more ‘low-brow’ culture as well. Thus, the crucial contrast
is not that of ‘snob versus slob’ but that of cultural omnivore versus cultural univore.
(from Social Stratification and Cultural Consumption: The Visual Arts in England ) |
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #7 on: 10:17:28, 20-12-2007 » |
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By failing to even provide a category for a group of people whose preference is for high culture, it seems to me that this research is so flawed as to be of very questionable worth. I would even question what it means to have a "preference for high culture". No doubt there are some people who are into high culture for the sake of it being high culture, and many others (including several on this board) who are highly intellectual and are stimulated by many different forms of serious art and culture. I have a passion for music. I couldn't care less about it being "high culture". I have some interest in straight theatre, negligible interest in art and poetry, zero interest in dance, and I don't read all that much (what I do read is mainly non-fiction and historical novels). I do have an analytical mind, but my reaction to music (and music-drama) is largely emotional and sensory. So am I in the same category as somebody who goes to Glyndebourne because the chaps they went to Henley with had a spare ticket? Or as somebody who is constantly in search of an intellectual challenge and finds the various facets of "popular" culture bland and unsatisfying? Actually, I struggle to think of any subject for a survey about people's preferences and choices which could ever result in the entire population of the UK placed into four handy pigeonholes. |
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
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increpatio
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« Reply #8 on: 10:26:26, 20-12-2007 » |
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By failing to even provide a category for a group of people whose preference is for high culture, it seems to me that this research is so flawed as to be of very questionable worth. I would even question what it means to have a "preference for high culture". No doubt it would include CFM listeners. Actually, I struggle to think of any subject for a survey about people's preferences and choices which could ever result in the entire population of the UK placed into four handy pigeonholes.
Erm; how about salaries?  I agree that there might be a wide variety of different motivations that people have when going to concert-halls and galleries, but I do think that the concepts still have some meaning. For instance, if it was shown that, say, people are more likely to go to the opera if they are from an upper-class background, irrespective of education, that would be a meaningful statement to me. It would take some more investigation to interpret, of course, but there is something to it I think. Or rather, there would be, if &c.. |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #9 on: 10:30:59, 20-12-2007 » |
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Actually, I struggle to think of any subject for a survey about people's preferences and choices which could ever result in the entire population of the UK placed into four handy pigeonholes.
Absolutely: even if you took a four-part division that already exists, such as the four constituent nations, I can't see that there'd be very much that you could deduce statistically from them (apart perhaps from ideas of nationality). |
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #10 on: 10:35:58, 20-12-2007 » |
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Erm; how about salaries? On a purely mathematical basis that's fine, but I'm not sure you can interpret anything from the results. Disposable income varies so hugely based on personal circumstances; and wealth is about so much more than income. |
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
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increpatio
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« Reply #11 on: 10:38:25, 20-12-2007 » |
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Actually, I struggle to think of any subject for a survey about people's preferences and choices which could ever result in the entire population of the UK placed into four handy pigeonholes.
Absolutely: even if you took a four-part division that already exists, such as the four constituent nations, I can't see that there'd be very much that you could deduce statistically from them (apart perhaps from ideas of nationality). you don't think it's meaningful to show that people who have more education or are higher class have broader, rather than different cultural interests to those with less? Because using these (sillily-named) categories this is what they did. |
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increpatio
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« Reply #12 on: 10:41:13, 20-12-2007 » |
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Erm; how about salaries? On a purely mathematical basis that's fine, but I'm not sure you can interpret anything from the results. You don't think that income tends to contribute measurably to any aspect of people's lives? Disposable income varies so hugely based on personal circumstances
On an case to case basis sure, but that don't in any way preclude the existence of trends. Wealth might be about so much more than income, but that doesn't make the latter category necessarily meaningless or uninteresting. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #13 on: 10:44:05, 20-12-2007 » |
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For instance, if it was shown that, say, people are more likely to go to the opera if they are from an upper-class background, irrespective of education, that would be a meaningful statement to me. It would take some more investigation to interpret, of course You would need to compare people with the same upper-class background but with less or more or different education, no? |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #14 on: 10:54:18, 20-12-2007 » |
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Erm; how about salaries? Fair point, Inky, but I am not sure whether this "opera as a toff's pleasure" argument still washes (except, perhaps, with the SWP for emotive kneejerk value only)? As has been widely mentioned (on these boards and elsewhere) - a ticket to Premier League footy costs at least as much as mid-price tickets to the Coli (and rather more than Opera North, ETO, etc). Tickets to rock concerts at decent venues come in the other side of 30 quid, and often hyperbolically more than that. I just did a quick look on the net, and Bruce Springsteen is "from £45", Kylie Minogue is "from £49". By contrast, IGI and I went to Verdi's Macbeth at Sadler's Wells and paid £30. Yes, they will say, but for Netrebko in Vienna they are paying £250?!?! And in answer to that, look what tickets for Elton John were going for on the black market? And yes, people fly internationally to see Elton too, and spend money on hotels and flights and concert tickets... and pronounce themselves well pleased with the fun they had for their money. And why not, if they enjoy it? (Elton John sold-out in Moscow, btw - cheapest tix were US$200, top-price were US$800). So I would say that the "price thing" is a red herring, overall. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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