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Author Topic: The Cultural Elite Does Not Exist (Allegedly)  (Read 1381 times)
perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #60 on: 11:38:10, 28-12-2007 »

In fact my entire repertoire of crude and obscene jokes was learnt from singers...  primarily from mezzo-sopranos, I might add Wink

Speaking as someone who is married to a Kiwi (former) mezzo, I couldn't possibly comment .... Wink
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Ian Pace
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« Reply #61 on: 19:17:47, 28-12-2007 »

That there have been times in the past when it was socially conventional to assume this link is undeniable. Indeed the very birth and evolution of Opera shows this clearly in its aristocratic and courtly origin and associations. But when Mozart latterly moved his work out of such aristocratic circles, and into the public opera house, we see evidence of an erosion of this previous status quo.
What was conceived of and spoken of as the 'public' in the aftermath of the decline of feudalism and bourgeois revolution from late 18th century Europe onwards was far from constituting the totality of members of society - rather in reality it meant the newly emancipated bourgeois merchants and their families, who became the primary consumers for classical music during the 19th century. This was still a very long way from any real egalitarianism. As far as making money from their craft was concerned, composers and instrumentalists then and now, give or take a few superstars, were a considerable way down the socio-economic ladder from the bulk of their new audiences, even when no longer in the regular employ of a feudal master as had previously been the case (and continued through that century, especially in German-speaking lands before the formation of the German nation).
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
MT Wessel
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« Reply #62 on: 01:38:46, 29-12-2007 »

There can be no "surely" about it unless the sentence bears a question mark..... Baz
Oh! So it's gloves off then is it! I'll be impersonating Arnie on this very subject in the New Year. In the meantime keep your 'airnet on and 'ave a look in Todays Humorous News Story for a well deserved Knighthood ....
« Last Edit: 01:45:14, 29-12-2007 by MT Wessel » Logged

lignum crucis arbour scientiae
MT Wessel
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« Reply #63 on: 02:05:54, 31-12-2007 »

.. While we wait would other members please not refrain from posting on this thread. You could, inadvertently, provide some useful camoflage for my rejoinder .. Smiley

... recently edited by Wessel because he cannot spell "camouflage".  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: 02:40:40, 31-12-2007 by MT Wessel » Logged

lignum crucis arbour scientiae
operacat
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« Reply #64 on: 16:29:49, 11-01-2008 »

.... Fiends Of The Royal Opera ....
I presume that is not a typo.

No..my rather feeble attempt at humour!
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nature abhors a vacuum - but not as much as cats do.
operacat
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« Reply #65 on: 16:34:26, 11-01-2008 »


What was conceived of and spoken of as the 'public' in the aftermath of the decline of feudalism and bourgeois revolution from late 18th century Europe onwards was far from constituting the totality of members of society - rather in reality it meant the newly emancipated bourgeois merchants and their families, who became the primary consumers for classical music during the 19th century. This was still a very long way from any real egalitarianism. As far as making money from their craft was concerned, composers and instrumentalists then and now, give or take a few superstars, were a considerable way down the socio-economic ladder from the bulk of their new audiences, even when no longer in the regular employ of a feudal master as had previously been the case (and continued through that century, especially in German-speaking lands before the formation of the German nation).

there's an urban myth of the 19th century, which gets attached to Liszt, Chopin et al....
The virtuoso is invited to play in the salon of an aristocratic lady. He accepts, and says his fee will be 5,000 thalers. The lady then says,
"Of course, I don't expect you to mingle with my guests - you can eat with the servants".
To which he replies,
"In that case, Madam, my fee will only be 3,000 thalers". Grin Grin
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nature abhors a vacuum - but not as much as cats do.
strinasacchi
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« Reply #66 on: 23:30:08, 11-01-2008 »

 Grin
I heard that one about a string quartet (can't remember which).
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #67 on: 00:50:15, 12-01-2008 »

There's another urban myth which I've heard attached to more than one well-known chamber ensemble.

Apparently, during their early days when they were struggling for recognition, they turned up to one concert only to find just one person in the audience. Undaunted, they played the first half of the programme, grateful for the experience. During the interval, they went up to this person and asked if he would like to hear the second half of the concert. "It's all the same to me," he said. "I'm just the caretaker and I'm here to lock up after you've left."
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #68 on: 04:31:41, 12-01-2008 »

This one actually happened to me in person, at the Moscow Dom Muzyki Chamber Hall.  I was attending the closing concert of a Music Festival, as a member of the audience, when two jolly ladies of middle age approached me with a copy of the Festival Programme.

First Old Lady: "We really loved your performance! Thank you very much!"

Second Old Lady: "Would you please sign our programme? 

Self: (flicking through the programme to the page about my show) "That's very kind of you to say so!  Of course, I was lucky enough to have a super cast (gesturing to the names in the programme).  Who did you like the best?"

Second Old Lady: "Aren't you Jan Pettersson*, then?"

Self: "Errr, no, I'm afraid not"

First Old Lady: "You SEE, I told you it wasn't him!  Pettersson is a much taller man than him!"

Second Old Lady: (taking pen out of my hand) "No, dear, this one's another foreigner. Come on, let's go and find Pettersson, there's still time before the concert starts)

(both walk away together without saying another word to me)

* the leader of the Stockholm Saxophone Quartet.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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