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Author Topic: US Presidential Race 2008  (Read 2261 times)
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #30 on: 21:50:11, 06-01-2008 »

The time Radio4 spends on the US Presidential election seems to get longer and longer each time, so now it's more like a whole year out of every four that I spend a lot of time turning if off or switching to Radio 3... no bad thing, I suppose!

The Americans insist on complicating the issue by providing such a range of candidates.  There is virtually no coverage on R4 of the Russian elections, as the candidates (and results) have been agreed in advance  Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #31 on: 00:16:25, 07-01-2008 »

. . . Eduard Schevardnadze, the one-time USSR Foreign Minister who turned Georgia into his personal fiefdom when the Soviet Union imploded?

Schevardnadze himself was no saint - he famously commented . . . [etc]

We do not think it is quite . . . right . . . to speak of Mr. Shevadnadze (ედუარდ შევარდნაძე is his name!) in this way. To us he seemed always a most agreeable and cultivated man, who stood and still stands head and shoulders above his detractors. In that respect he resembles little General P. of Pakistan, another man of great culture who has been badly maligned by those who do not and cannot understand.

As for the vile accusation with which our quoted excerpt continues: we will not repeat it here, as it is almost libellous is it not? and we doubt it should be permitted to stand.

. . . the Georgian people with their yankee puppet leader (Saakashvili holds a US Passport, which some might think a trifle unusual...)

It's not coincidental, of course, that the American-owned Ceyhan Oil Pipeline runs through Georgia, and was completed shortly after Mr Saakashvili's remarkable rise to power from the obscurity of exile in the United States.

Is it not almost the same case in Apghanistan? And - perhaps more to the point - is it not now almost the same case in many European countries? Entire populations live out their lives under that fell yoke and remain almost entirely ignorant of the fact.
« Last Edit: 00:19:17, 07-01-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #32 on: 00:41:29, 07-01-2008 »

Hmm ... this is interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Shevardnadze

(where we see:
Quote
Eduard Shevardnadze (Georgian: ედუარდ შევარდნაძე; Russian: Эдуа́рд Амвро́сьевич Шевардна́дзе)
I don't read Georgian, but the Russian definitely includes an 'r' before the first 'd', although the IPA pronunciation that follows seems to suggest only a mild 'swallowed' r before both d's in the surname, unlike the second 'd' of 'Eduard' which is shown with a definite r-sound before it).

Why 'do not and cannot understand'? Is there no hope? Educate us, Mr Grew!
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #33 on: 04:40:52, 07-01-2008 »


As for the vile accusation with which our quoted excerpt continues: we will not repeat it here, as it is almost libellous is it not? and we doubt it should be permitted to stand.

If any accusation is made, then it's made by Mr Shevardnadze against himself - as I have quoted him verbatim.  I am no expert in ballistics, although my Georgian friends (like all ex-USSR citizens, obliged to serve two years in the military under National Service) tell me that a submachine-gun is a most unwieldy weapon to use upon one's own self.

I don't dispute, btw, that Shevardnadze was/is a cultured man.  You don't rise to senior rank in the diplomatic service anywhere without polish and social graces.  Georgians especially prize the skill of public speaking (it remains one of the few countries in which "toastmaster" is an established full-time profession) and Shevardnadze rose from such roots.  The Premiere whom he so abruptly replaced, however, had rather greater credentials in that area, being an Academician of the USSR, playwright, author, polyglot and dictionary compiler. The most authoratative Georgian-Russian dictionary in print remains Gamsakhurdia's.


Quote
Is it not almost the same case in Apghanistan? And - perhaps more to the point - is it not now almost the same case in many European countries? Entire populations live out their lives under that fell yoke and remain almost entirely ignorant of the fact.

I am no expert on this matter, but it certainly seems Mr Grew has good reason to make these claims. The widely-read books of Peter Hopkirk ("The Great Game", "Setting The East Ablaze", "Foreign Devils On The Silk Road" etc) document the history of British involvement in Central Asia with depressing accuracy.  The gloomy fates of Sir Alexander "Bokhara" Burnes, McNaughten and others, and the history of reaching accommodation with local warlords (such as Dost Mohamed) who were then purposely removed and replaced with others prior to returning to power makes a woeful cycle of which present actions are merely a repetition.  The only news under the sun is that America is now the Imperial power misdirecting the campaigning (hence the relevance to this discussion), with Britain relegated to the duties of an obedient batman.  Viewed in the light of foreign meddling in the area since the post-Napoleonic era, the impression of a continuum of more-or-less disastrous involvement is hard to ignore.  I wonder if British or American troops in Afghanistan continue the tradition of visiting Burnes's tomb in Kabul, where many of his body-parts were interred after they had been purchased back from the various mobs who tore him apart?  Younghusband (who later led the vainglorious British invasion of Tibet in 1905) certainly did so during his brief period of service there, although he appears to have learned little from the visit.

KABUL town’s by Kabul river—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
There I lef’ my mate for ever,
  Wet an’ drippin’ by the ford.
         Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
           Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
         There’s the river up and brimmin’, an’ there’s ’arf a squadron swimmin’
           ’Cross the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark.

Kabul town’s a blasted place—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
’Strewth I sha’n’t forget ’is face
  Wet an’ drippin’ by the ford!
         Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
           Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
         Keep the crossing-stakes beside you, an’ they will surely guide you
           ’Cross the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark.

Kabul town is sun and dust—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
I’d ha’ sooner drownded fust
  ’Stead of ’im beside the ford.
         Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
           Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
         You can ’ear the ’orses threshin’, you can ’ear the men a-splashin’,
           ’Cross the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark.

Kabul town was ours to take—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
I’d ha’ left it for ’is sake—
  ’Im that left me by the ford.
         Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
           Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
         It’s none so bloomin’ dry there; ain’t you never comin’ nigh there,
           ’Cross the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark?

Kabul town’ll go to hell—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
’Fore I see him ’live an’ well—
  ’Im the best beside the ford.
     Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
       Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
     Gawd ’elp ’em if they blunder, for their boots’ll pull ’em under,
       By the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark.

Turn your ’orse from Kabul town—
  Blow the bugle, draw the sword—
’Im an’ ’arf my troop is down,
  Down an’ drownded by the ford.
     Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
       Ford o’ Kabul river in the dark!
     There’s the river low an’ fallin’, but it ain’t no use o’ callin’
       ’Cross the ford o’ Kabul river in the dark.

(Kipling)
« Last Edit: 04:43:42, 07-01-2008 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #34 on: 07:25:09, 07-01-2008 »

Younghusband (who later led the vainglorious British invasion of Tibet in 1905) . . .
Here are Colonel Francis himself (who later went all mystical and wrote several books about comparative religion) and his friend the Thirteenth Dalai Lama. They made each other's acquaintance during the Colonel's mission to Lhasa in 1904:


         Ford, ford, ford o’ Kabul river,
           Ford
[etc.]
How apt that this should be quoted on a day when we are attempting to decide between a Ford and a Benz. Of course we could get four Fords for the price of one Benz, but there is the status to consider is there not? Is there any call for a Motoring Thread here? Administrators, Moderators and others, what do you say?

(Kipling)
Yes we had thought as much Mr. Thorheit before we got even half-way down the page.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #35 on: 09:31:51, 07-01-2008 »

Quote
"He likes your lemonade. . . ."

But OH, the taste of that lemonade!  Wonder how it's made?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
strinasacchi
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« Reply #36 on: 10:02:34, 07-01-2008 »

Quote
"He likes your lemonade. . . ."

But OH, the taste of that lemonade!  Wonder how it's made?

" ... with ice."
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C Dish
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« Reply #37 on: 19:39:40, 07-01-2008 »

Occasionally Hitchens gets it right: though I disagree w/ him about a number of issues, he makes a good point here. I don't know if American racial politics and race history are of interest to anyone here, but the disinterested can just pass over this link like an oil slick swims on the San Francisco Bay.
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inert fig here
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #38 on: 11:13:56, 08-01-2008 »

Sorry if we seem a nuisance - we were just wondering whether there has yet been a homosexualistic president. And if not why not? Britain took that giant step long ago in the Prime Ministerial arena. We wonder which token minority would be least acceptable in a plutocracy. But there have certainly been several presidents who were - what is the correct term nowadays? - "selectively perceptive."

As for Hitchens, it would be a good thing were he to stop abusing homosexualists (whom he accuses of thrusting themselves upon our attention) and to start riding his bicycle on the road instead of on the footpath (much more thrusting that actually and less avoidable).
« Last Edit: 11:36:13, 08-01-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #39 on: 11:27:22, 08-01-2008 »

Christopher Hitchens.  "Will lie for whisky".
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #40 on: 11:43:06, 08-01-2008 »

Yet another point on this subject. We were to-day tuning our wireless and happened for a moment to land upon an interview with a northern American lady voter. She used a striking expression which we have not heard before. She said that Mrs. Clipton (one of the candidates, apparently) had been "bought and paid for years ago." We copied it into a little note-book we keep for such things.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #41 on: 12:14:15, 08-01-2008 »

.... whether there has yet been a homosexualistic president. And if not why not? Britain took that giant step long ago in the Prime Ministerial arena.

William Pitt?  Ted Heath?

If Syd's definition means they indulged in acts of intimacy with other men, then we don't know.  If it means (which I take it to mean) they fancied other men in the way most men fancy women, then only they can say if they did, and we can't know.


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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #42 on: 05:52:33, 09-01-2008 »

Meanwhile, where are we with the Primaries, and what do the results "mean"?

Hillary appears to have stumped Obama in New Hampshire after a close fight.

McCain repeated his New Hampshire victory of 8 years ago, coming handsomely ahead of Mitt Romney.

Do we conclude that New Hampshire residents favour bludgeoning onwards with the Iraq War, since both Mrs Clinton (more moderately) and Mr McCain (with bloodcurdling enthusiasm) favour such a policy?

What should we make of the successes of the most eager warmongers (McCain & Huckabee) among the Republicans?  Giuliani appears to be holed below the waterline, Romney finished behind Ron Paul in Iowa, and all three appear to have misjudged the public's enthusiasm for more meaningless bloodshed.  McCain is even on record (and on YouTube) encouraging his followers to adopt the words "Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran! Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran!" to the melody of the famous Beach Boys song.

I ought to admit a chance connection to Mr McCain in my own past, which possibly predisposes me to disliking him. I was in Kiev in the late 1980s, when McCain's daughter was among a group of young Americans visiting the USSR to assure themselves of its awfulness.  I was the translator for the group. Ms McCain fell ill and needed surgery - her group returned to the USA without her, and I had to remain in Kiev with her until she was well enough to travel.  This involved nightly phonecalls at 4am to the McCain household in the USA to update them on her progress (some ingenuity was needed to get a trunk call connection to the USA in those days, and it cost a small fortune).  I have to say I found McCain to be less belligerent than I'd expected, but he never once said a word of thanks for (unpaid) work I was doing for his daughter  (my paid contract ended on the day the group left for the USA).  He couldn't seem to work out that I wasn't Russian.  His baleful hatred of post-soviet Russia might be in some way connected with this incident?  I bribed to get the Professor Of Clinical Surgery to conduct the Op, and Ms McCain made a full recovery.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
C Dish
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« Reply #43 on: 03:18:10, 10-01-2008 »

Well, Bill Richardson is quitting the race. That's just what we needed. A quitter!

The media is so stupid, the people are all dumbasses, I mean, how can they overlook Bill Richardson?

****. Shit. Damn. Mother****er. Lhasa Apso.

'Zif the day wasn't already going badly enough.
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inert fig here
Evan Johnson
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« Reply #44 on: 10:16:34, 10-01-2008 »

Well, Bill Richardson is quitting the race. That's just what we needed. A quitter!

The media is so stupid, the people are all dumbasses, I mean, how can they overlook Bill Richardson?

****. Shit. Damn. Mother****er. Lhasa Apso.

'Zif the day wasn't already going badly enough.

I feel you, brother.  When's the last time the US elected an overweight president?  Teddy Roosevelt?
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