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Author Topic: Wagner and the art of the theatre  (Read 1889 times)
perfect wagnerite
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« on: 12:57:43, 09-05-2007 »

Interesting piece in today's Guardian, in which Stephen Moss interviews Patrick Carnegy about his book on the history of Wagner production -

http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2075248,00.html

He's interesting on the question of whether modern Wagner audiences need to feel guilty - it's not clear whether the suggestion that modern Wagner productions could not be "guilt-free" is Carnegy's or a gloss by a journalist who elsewhere in his piece makes some rather easy assumptions.

Carnegy is quoted as saying:

"The overwhelming guilt about Wagner, and the question of whether it's OK to like him, has become a very big thing that people are trying to grapple with on the stage through postmodern takes on it. There is an unease before the vastness of what the Ring is and what it can mean."

I have to say that I do not feel that there is a contradiction between understanding the background of Wagner, or the way the works were misused, and enthusiasm for music that seems to me to transcend and indeed contradict all of these things.  But others obivously do.

Any thoughts?

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« Reply #1 on: 13:11:06, 09-05-2007 »

Quote
The overwhelming guilt about Wagner, and the question of whether it's OK to like him
I would have thought that the best way to deal with these questions would be to realise the Gesamtkunstwerk on stage in some form related to what Wagner envisaged, so that it can be judged as a whole. Imagine your first attendance at a Wagner opera being a production which disregards the stage directions in the interest of placing Wagner in postmodern inverted commas - you might spend much of the time wondering what was going on and why. I think it's producers who feel that they have to assuage some kind of guilt (starting maybe already with Wieland W), rather than audiences.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #2 on: 13:23:45, 09-05-2007 »

I have to say that I do not feel that there is a contradiction between understanding the background of Wagner, or the way the works were misused, and enthusiasm for music that seems to me to transcend and indeed contradict all of these things.  But others obivously do.
And if there was a contradiction, would that be a problem? If the enthusiasm for the music is there then there's little point denying it exists. And I'm not sure 'feeling guilty' is much use either. Feeling guilty rarely stops anyone doing anything.

If you're enthusiastic about the music, don't deny it. If you're interested in exploring the darker episodes of Wagner reception history, do so. If you feel that results in a contradiction, then you probably have an enlightened perspective and a productive ability to ask questions without producing easy answers. Contradictions are not there to be ignored or reasoned away - they're part of being in the world.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #3 on: 18:13:00, 09-05-2007 »

Quote
Imagine your first attendance at a Wagner opera being a production which disregards the stage directions in the interest of placing Wagner in postmodern inverted commas

I'll see your Jack and raise you one, Richard  Smiley

Opera theatres are not - or at least, shouldn't be - museums.  We cannot always have the self-same productions as the composer intended, because we cannot erase the audience's minds to a blank and pretend that all of the stuff that's happened in the world since the opera was written "hasn't happened".  You cannot produce Wagner in denial of Nazism - it's not realistic to do so, and it would be intellectually dishonest to try.  More than any other composer in history, Wagner's work is overlain with a sequence of external extramusical meaning,  and one has to ask - why?  I'd contend that the reason is because the seeds of those events are present within the libretto.  Whether or not the Nazis had ever risen to power, the concept - for example - of a racially "pure" race of Volsungs springing from the incestuous coupling of Siegmund and Sieglinde is there in the libretto.  The character of Mime - prepared to exploit Siegfried as his hefty workling in grabbing the Ring from Fafner, even if Siegfried is killed doing so - is there in the libretto.

As a Director, either you square-up to these situations, or you let them trickle through your fingers.  Let me give you an example of what I mean, let's go and break some stage-directions?  Wink

I'd like to introduce you to Mime.  Here is a man already a misfit in an alien environment... chased out of Niebelheim by the avaricious behaviour of his own brother, and eking-out a living in a forest from the only skill he knows, metalworking...  a business that can hardly be in much demand in that location.  One day, in somewhat unclear circumstances, he appears to have encountered a heavily pregnant girl, on the run from a violent wife-beater of a husband, whose child this is not.  Since Hunding is widely-feared near and far, the risk Mime runs in sheltering and helping the girl is great - quite possibly fatal. She dies in childbirth, but faithful old Mime brings up the boy as his own, cooking and caring for him as best he knows how.

So who is Mime?  Well, I'll eat my hat, it's kindly old Mr Brownlow in Oliver Twist.  Or perhaps he's Miep Gies, the woman who hid the Frank family from the Nazis?   Or is he Jean Valjean, unwilling but heroically loyal stepfather with a dark secret in his past?   Oh, and he's a vegetarian, too Wink

The Director's job is to mine the text for meaning,  and bring that meaning into the foreground for a modern audience - not the audience of yesteryear, who are long since dead.  As we have said endlessly in relation to HIP, you cannot fit C18th ears to an audience.  Similarly, you can't fit C19th minds to them either.

Quote
Contradictions are not there to be ignored or reasoned away - they're part of being in the world.

Exactly so, and if they are brushed under the carpet you are left with something with as little to say as The Flowerpot Men.  Confrontation is at the heart of all good theatre,  whether it's narrative, tragic or comic.  Figaro vs the Count,  Don Giovanni vs conventional morals, Madame Ranevskaya vs those who would turn her Cherry Orchard into housing developments.

But the Director cannot cop-out.  To say "follow the stage directions" is like a conductor saying to an orchestra "well, just follow the metronome marks, dynamics and phrasing, and don't bother to look up at me,  because I must not add anything not indicated by the composer".
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #4 on: 18:26:11, 09-05-2007 »

With respect to the original post, I wonder if 'postmodern inverted commas' isn't being used as a catch-all term for any type of revisionist productions of Wagner? I'm not sure if I've seen or heard of a production that could truly be called in 'postmodern inverted commas' - question I'd ask then is whether, if it's legitimate to do that with the staging, why not with the music as well (which I would reckon would create rather more of a furore)? But overall I agree with much of what Reiner has to say here - these are living operas that can be re-adapted and re-interpreted in changing circumstances. Nonetheless, as regards the point about HIP - it's not necessarily about simply recreating older styles of performance, often more about studying them, learning from them, and enhancing one's understanding of the works' conceptions by such means, then drawing upon that knowledge when creating a modern interpretation. An analogy in terms of staging would be to do with studying Wagner's staging instructions (not just those in the score, but the history of productions during his lifetime, and maybe afterwards as well), but not necessarily replicating them. A viewer who sees a Wagner opera for the first time is not (especially in the case of this composer) likely to see it in the same way as nineteenth-century audiences, for reasons that Wagner could not realistically have foreseen.

Also, I don't see why stage directors should have to feel the need to lay off modern productions just in case some people in the audience might be seeing the operas for the first time.
« Last Edit: 18:34:35, 09-05-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: 18:28:17, 09-05-2007 »

in some form related to what Wagner envisaged [my emphasis]
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #6 on: 18:37:14, 09-05-2007 »

in some form related to what Wagner envisaged [my emphasis]

That could mean a massive range of different things, depending whether one thinks what Wagner envisaged primarily took the form of specific details of stage direction, or a broader conception of which his particular set of directions seemed an adequate rendition at that particular point in time.
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« Reply #7 on: 18:43:59, 09-05-2007 »

Quote
That could mean a massive range of different things

It could, but it seemed to me to be making roughly the same point as this:
studying Wagner's staging instructions, but not necessarily replicating them.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #8 on: 18:50:10, 09-05-2007 »

Quote
That could mean a massive range of different things

It could, but it seemed to me to be making roughly the same point as this:
studying Wagner's staging instructions, but not necessarily replicating them.

Yes, but I'm not sure if that's what Richard was meaning, though (when making the point about the first-time spectator). Anyhow, whilst you're in your nit-picking mood, rather than offering any other opinions, you might like to notice that this was a point about an analogy to HIP in terms of staging. I'm not sure that many directors are directly looking to contravene Wagner's ideas, rather to consider their changing meanings and changing perspective thereupon. No direction of an opera can incorporate all possible meanings somehow implicit in the conception, any more than any a musical interpretation can. What directors find the most important things to foreground nowadays may be different to that in past eras, but that doesn't necessarily place them at cross-purposes with Wagner's intentions.

Furthermore, are we 100% sure that there isn't some possible (maybe small) aspect of ironic artifice in terms of Wagner's own conceptions (whilst not necessarily anything like on the level of postmodern conceptions of such)? May seem unlikely, but I wouldn't totally rule it out.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #9 on: 19:05:47, 09-05-2007 »

I kindly invite anyone who wishes to try, to suggest how the following series of stage-directions could be physically accomplished??

Brünnhilde
(versinkt von neuem in die Betrachtung des Antlitzes der Leiche Siegfrieds. Ihre Mienen nehmen eine immer sanftere Verklärung an)
Wie Sonne lauter strahlt mir sein Licht:
der Reinste war er, der mich verriet!
Die Gattin trügend, - treu dem Freunde, -
von der eignen Trauten - einzig ihm teuer -
schied er sich durch sein Schwert.
Echter als er schwur keiner Eide;
treuer als er hielt keiner Verträge;
lautrer als er liebte kein andrer:
und doch, alle Eide, alle Verträge,
die treueste Liebe trog keiner wie er! -
Wißt ihr, wie das ward?
(nach oben blickend)
O ihr, der Eide ewige Hüter!
Lenkt euren Blick auf mein blühendes Leid:
erschaut eure ewige Schuld!
Meine Klage hör', du hehrster Gott!
Durch seine tapferste Tat,
dir so tauglich erwünscht,
weihtest du den, der sie gewirkt,
dem Fluche, dem du verfielest:
mich mußte der Reinste verraten,
daß wissend würde ein Weib!
Weiß ich nun, was dir frommt? -
Alles, alles, alles weiß ich,
alles ward mir nun frei!
Auch deine Raben hör' ich rauschen;
mit bang ersehnter Botschaft
send' ich die beiden nun heim.
Ruhe, ruhe, du Gott! -

(Sie winkt den Mannen, Siegfrieds Leiche auf den Scheiterhaufen zu tragen; zugleich zieht sie von Siegfrieds Finger den Ring ab und betrachtet ihn sinnend)


Mein Erbe nun nehm' ich zu eigen.
Verfluchter Reif! Furchtbarer Ring!
Dein Gold fass' ich und geb' es nun fort.
Der Wassertiefe weise Schwestern,
des Rheines schwimmende Töchter,
euch dank' ich redlichen Rat.
Was ihr begehrt, ich geb' es euch:
aus meiner Asche nehmt es zu eigen!
Das Feuer, das mich verbrennt,
rein'ge vom Fluche den Ring!
Ihr in der Flut löset ihn auf,
und lauter bewahrt das lichte Gold,
das euch zum Unheil geraubt.
 

(Sie hat sich den Ring angesteckt und wendet sich jetzt zu dem Scheiterhaufen, auf welchem Siegfrieds Leiche ausgestreckt liegt. Sie entreißt einem Manne den mächtigen Feuerbrand, schwingt diesen und deutet nach dem Hintergrunde)


Fliegt heim, ihr Raben!
Raunt es eurem Herren,
was hier am Rhein ihr gehört!
An Brünnhildes Felsen fahrt vorbei! -
Der dort noch lodert,
weiset Loge nach Walhall!
Denn der Götter Ende dämmert nun auf.
So - werf' ich den Brand
in Walhalls prangende Burg.
 

(Sie schleudert den Brand in den Holzstoß, der sich schnell hell entzündet. Zwei Raben sind vom Felsen am Ufer aufgeflogen und verschwinden nach den Hintergrunde zu.
Brünnhilde gewahrt ihr Roß, welches zwei junge Männer hereinführen. Sie ist ihm entgegengesprungen, faßt es und entzäumt es schnell; dann neigt sie sich traulich zu ihm)


Grane, mein Roß!
Sei mir gegrüßt!
Weißt du auch, mein Freund,
wohin ich dich führe?
Im Feuer leuchtend, liegt dort dein Herr,
Siegfried, mein seliger Held.
Dem Freunde zu folgen, wieherst du freudig?
Lockt dich zu ihm die lachende Lohe?
Fühl' meine Brust auch, wie sie entbrennt;
helles Feuer das Herz mir erfaßt,
ihn zu umschlingen, umschlossen von ihm,
in mächtigster Minne vermählt ihm zu sein!
Heiajoho! Grane!
Grüß' deinen Herren!
Siegfried! Siegfried! Sieh!
Selig grüßt dich dein Weib!
 

(Sie hat sich auf das Roß geschwungen und hebt es jetzt zum Sprunge. Sie sprengt es mit einem Satze in den brennenden Scheiterhaufen. Sogleich steigt prasselnd der Brand hoch auf, so daß das Feuer den ganzen Raum vor der Halle erfüllt und diese selbst schon zu ergreifen scheint. Entsetzt drängen sich Männer und Frauen nach dem äußersten Vordergrunde.
Als der ganze Bühnenraum nur noch von Feuer erfüllt erscheint, verlischt plötzlich der Glutschein, so daß bald bloß ein Dampfgewölk zurückbleibt, welches sich dem Hintergrunde zu verzieht und dort am Horizont sich als finstere Wolkenschicht lagert. Zugleich ist vom Ufer her der Rhein mächtig angeschwollen und hat seine Flut über die Brandstätte gewälzt. Auf den Wogen sind die drei Rheintöchter herbeigeschwommen und erscheinen jetzt über der Brandstätte. Hagen, der seit dem Vorgange mit dem Ringe Brünnhildes Benehmen mit wachsender Angst beobachtet hat, gerät beim Anblick der Rheintöchter in höchsten Schreck. Er wirft hastig Speer, Schild und Helm von sich und stürzt wie wahnsinnig sich in die Flut.)


Hagen
Zurück vom Ring!
 

(Woglinde und Wellgunde umschlingen mit ihren Armen seinen Nacken und ziehen ihn so, zurückschwimmend, mit sich in die Tiefe. Flosshilde, den anderen voran dem Hintergrunde zuschwimmend, hält jubelnd den gewonnenen Ring in die Höhe. Durch die Wolkenschicht, welche sich am Horizont gelagert, bricht ein rötlicher Glutschein mit wachsender Helligkeit aus. Von dieser Helligkeit beleuchtet, sieht man die drei Rheintöchter auf den ruhigeren Wellen des allmählich wieder in sein Bett zurückgetretenen Rheines, lustig mit dem Ringe spielend, im Reigen schwimmen. Aus den Trümmern der zusammengestürzten Halle sehen die Männer und Frauen in höchster Ergriffenheit dem wachsenden Feuerschein am Himmel zu. Als dieser endlich in lichtester Helligkeit leuchtet, erblickt man darin den Saal Walhalls, in welchem die Götter und Helden, ganz nach der Schilderung Waltrautes im ersten Aufzuge, versammelt sitzen. Helle Flammen scheinen in dem Saal der Götter aufzuschlagen. Als die Götter von den Flammen gänzlich verhüllt sind, fällt der Vorhang)
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #10 on: 19:06:55, 09-05-2007 »

Quite! Not least in a way that wouldn't contravene every fire regulation there could ever be.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #11 on: 19:10:33, 09-05-2007 »

I'm not sure that many directors are directly looking to contravene Wagner's ideas, rather to consider their changing meanings.
It seems to me there's a strong tendency in productions of old operas (and yes, we should occasionally remember that the 'staple repertoire' of the big opera houses is old music, most of it being closer to Mozart's time than to our own) for the director to ignore the composer/librettist's ideas completely. Note that I say 'ignore', not 'contravene'. But 'ignore' is an opposite pole to 'consider their changing meanings' just as much as 'contravene' is, and arguably even more so (if you take the view that direct contravention would retain the trace of that which it sought to contravene).

I'm not saying directors shouldn't be allowed to start afresh, just that (exactly as the HIP movement found in the 80s and 90s) it would sometimes be equally fresh to try to establish a new and surprising relationship to what had happened at a previous historical juncture. In fact, I'd suggest that in current conditions that might be more fresh, since one of the problems opera directors seem to unintentionally run into in trying to do their fresh, new, anti-authorial things all the time is that their productions seem like tired recyclings of a few all too familiar tropes of 'contemporary opera production'.

But I bow to Reiner's considerably greater theatrical knowledge and experience on this (and I wrote this sentence before reading his most recent message, it was more a response to his first contribution).
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #12 on: 19:13:31, 09-05-2007 »

Here that is in English, although I don't vouch for the quality of this translation. 

BRÜNNHILDE
(again lost in contemplation
of Siegfried's body:
her face becomes increasingly
transfigured with tenderness)

Like sunlight
his clear radiance shines on me:
he was the purest,
he who betrayed me!
Deceiving his wife,
loyal to his friend,
with his sword he separated himself
from his own true love,
alone dear to him.
No man more honest
ever took an oath;
none more true
made treaty;
none was more pure
in love;
and yet none so betrayed
all oaths,
all treaties,
his truest love!

Do you know why this was?

(looking upwards)

O you, heavenly custodian
of oaths!
Turn your gaze
on my great grief,
see your everlasting guilt!
Hear my lament,
mighty god!
Through his most doughty deed,
that you rightly desired,
you sacrificed him
who wrought it
to the curse which had fallen on you:
this innocent had
to betray me
so that I should become a woman of wisdom!

Do I know now what is your will?

Everything, everything,
everything I know,
all is now clear to me!
I hear your ravens
stirring too;
with dreaded desired tidings
I now send them both home.
Rest, rest now, o god!

(She signs to the vassals to lift Siegfried's
body on to the funeral pyre; at the same
time she removes the ring from Siegfried's
finger and gazes thoughtfully at it.)

Now I take up
my inheritance.
Accursed ring,
terrible ring,
I take your gold
and now I give it away.
Wise sisters
of the water's depths,
you swimming daughters of the Rhine,
I thank you for your good counsel.
I give you
what you crave:
from my ashes
take it for your own!
The fire that consumes me
shall cleanse the ring from the curse!
You in the water,
wash it away
and keep pure
the gleaming gold
that was disastrously stolen from you.

(She has put on the ring
and now turns to the funeral pyre
on which Siegfried's body lies
stretched. She snatches from
one of the vassals a huge torch,)
(swings it and points towards
the background.)

Fly home, you ravens!
Recount to your master
what you have heard here by the Rhine!
Pass
by Brünnhilde's rock:
direct Loge, who still
blazes there, to Valhalla;
for the end of the gods
is nigh.
Thus do I throw this torch
at Valhalla's vaulting towers.

(She hurls the torch into the pile of wood,
which quickly bursts into flame. Two ravens
fly up from the rock by the shore
and disappear into the background.)
(Brünnhilde catches sight of her horse,
which two young men lead in. She runs
towards it, takes hold of it and quickly
unbridles it: then leans towards it
confidentially)

Grane, my steed,
greetings!
Do you too know, my friend,
where I am leading you?
Radiant in the fire,
there lies your lord,
Siegfried, my blessed hero.
Are you neighing for joy
to follow your friend?
Do the laughing flames
lure you to him?
Feel my bosom too,
how it burns;
a bright fire
fastens on my heart
to embrace him,
enfolded in his arms,
to be one with him
in the intensity of love!
Heiajoho! Grane!
Greet your master!
Siegfried! Siegfried! See!
Your wife joyfully greets you!

(She has jumped on to the horse and with one bound leaps into the burning pyre. The flames immediately crackle and flare up high, so that the fire fills the whole space in front of the hall and seems to seize on this too. Terrified, the men and women press to the extreme foreground.)
(When the entire stage appears to be completely filled with flame, the glare suddenly dies down, soon leaving only a cloud of smoke which drifts towards the background and lies on the horizon like a dark pall of cloud. At the same time the Rhine greatly overflows its banks, and its waters inundate the area of the fire. The three Rhinemaidens swim past on the waves and appear above the pyre. Hagen, who since the incident of the ring has been watching Brünnhilde's behaviour with growing anxiety, is filled with the utmost terror at the sight of the Rhinemaidens. He hastily throws aside his spear, shield and helmet and plunges, as if insane, into the flood.)

HAGEN

Keep away from the ring!

(Woglinde and Wellgunde twine their arms round his neck and, swimming backwards, drag him with them into the depths. Flosshilde, swimming in front of the others towards the background, exultantly holds high the recovered ring. Through the cloud bank that lies on the horizon breaks an increasingly bright red glow. In its light the three Rhinemaidens are seen happily playing with the ring and swimming in circles in the calmer waves of the Rhine, which is gradually subsiding into its bed. From the ruins of the place, which has collapsed, the men and women, in the utmost apprehension, watch the growing firelight in the sky. When this finally reaches its brightest there becomes visible the palace of Valhalla, in which the gods and heroes sit assembled, exactly as Waltraute described them in Act One. Bright flames seem to set fire to the hall of the gods. As the gods become completely hidden from view by flames, the curtain falls)
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-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
time_is_now
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« Reply #13 on: 19:19:28, 09-05-2007 »

I kindly invite anyone who wishes to try, to suggest how the following series of stage-directions could be physically accomplished??
I know next to nothing about Wagner productions in his own time, but does anyone know how the directions in the passage you cite were interpreted in the first performances?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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« Reply #14 on: 19:21:02, 09-05-2007 »

Quote
But I bow to Reiner's considerably greater theatrical knowledge and experience on this

No, please don't do that...  the only arbiter in any kind of show is that the public go away happy with the experience their ticket-money bought them.   No end of programme-notes, pre-performance talks, round-table discussions etc will save a show that cannot stand by itself.  Blimey, Goetterdaemerung runs for over four hours, and if you cannot convince the audience in four hours of their collective attention, then sadly, you've failed.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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