The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
09:50:41, 02-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
Author Topic: DEATH IN VENICE @ ENO  (Read 2425 times)
Lord Byron
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1591



« Reply #15 on: 15:27:53, 29-05-2007 »

nar,felt tired and was raining and figured i got mozart eno trip coming up,did wonder though,when at the wallace collection,looking at those HUGE views of venice
Logged

go for a walk with the ramblers http://www.ramblers.org.uk/
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #16 on: 18:29:07, 29-05-2007 »

Quote
hey,a, i am in london on the 2nd for dinner and poetry cafe trip, no opera though...

one day m'lord, one day  Grin

A
« Last Edit: 23:16:34, 18-09-2007 by John W » Logged

Well, there you are.
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #17 on: 18:40:09, 29-05-2007 »

Aschenbach, we are told, is tired, thirsty, unwell, oppressed by the heat, and suffering from "spells of giddiness only half physical in their origin".
This book wouldn't happen to have been written shortly after 1908, would it?

Mary, I'm fascinated by your idea that Britten might have seen himself in Tadzio as well as in Aschenbach - and, by extension, the idea that any Tadzio can become (does become?) an Aschenbach ...
« Last Edit: 12:43:59, 30-05-2007 by time_is_now » Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Lord Byron
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1591



« Reply #18 on: 12:31:12, 30-05-2007 »

http://www.eno.org/ebulletin/div_press/main.html

twas a hit says the eno !
Logged

go for a walk with the ramblers http://www.ramblers.org.uk/
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #19 on: 20:37:31, 30-05-2007 »

Thanks for this link Lord B, I am going on Saturday, and really looking forward to it.

A Grin
Logged

Well, there you are.
Mary Chambers
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2589



« Reply #20 on: 10:08:25, 31-05-2007 »

Some good photos here:

http://www.playbillarts.com/news/article/6570.html
Logged
Il Grande Inquisitor
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4665



« Reply #21 on: 10:10:52, 31-05-2007 »

Thanks for posting that link, Mary. I think it illustrates just how good the lighting in the production is; the one on the steamship has an appropriate 'sepia' feel about it.
Logged

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
DracoM
**
Posts: 72


« Reply #22 on: 10:43:48, 03-06-2007 »

Mary

Yes, Britten the young victor ludorum angle has never been truly explored in thinking about this opera IMO.

At the time of writing, BB virtually knew he was on the way out, or severely ill, and the notion of re-creating that effervescenece and carelessness of being a boy again at the height of his powers and rather pleased to be [a] showing off, and secretly rather glad someone was admiring his showing off is totally plausible.

How Aschenbach sees it is of course NOT all that different. A 53 yr old, searching for some key to unlocking his own dilemmas and conflicts? For A, seeing the unfettered exuberance of youth around him is liberating. Oh Yes, of course, Aschednach goes several stages beyond that admiration into obsession, and his desperation to warn the mother - a desperation unfulfilled - smacks of that obsession. But what about this; maybe Aschenbach is subconsciously held back from actually gving the warning because, apart from the fear of being branded some kind of pervert, maybe in a curious way, Tadzio's death in Venice would be a way of keeping the boy eternally alive and thus eternally beautiful in his imagination? The 'golden boy' - like BB's memories of his own moments of athletic glory and cricket -  would never decay, never grow up and away, never become an Aschenbach or someone like him? Hence maybe there is tension in Aschenbach between an urgency to 'save' the boy, and desier to possess him. The only way to possess him was, as Wagner intimiated in Tristan, in a kind of death? Even if that death is his own?

Phew. Is that just fanciful cobblers?
Logged
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #23 on: 11:01:18, 03-06-2007 »

I went to the opera last night.... super !! meeting someone from the message boards was also rather fun!

I thought Bostridge's performance was wonderful, his diction faultless... quite amazing when you think of the nature of the melodic lines he was singing and the variety of pitch.

Most enjoyable.

I am toying with the Mozart Byron....

A

Logged

Well, there you are.
Mary Chambers
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2589



« Reply #24 on: 11:08:46, 03-06-2007 »

Mary

Yes, Britten the young victor ludorum angle has never been truly explored in thinking about this opera IMO.

At the time of writing, BB virtually knew he was on the way out, or severely ill, and the notion of re-creating that effervescenece and carelessness of being a boy again at the height of his powers and rather pleased to be [a] showing off, and secretly rather glad someone was admiring his showing off is totally plausible.

...........................

Phew. Is that just fanciful cobblers?

I don't think it's fanciful cobblers at all, at least not as much so as some of the things that have been written about this opera! I should have quoted all you wrote, but it would have been a bit long. The book says something about Aschenbach being secretly rather pleased that the boy looked delicate and would possibly not live to grow up.

Britten was obsessed with his own childhood even when he was not near death, and as an adult was still filling in the details page of his Schoolboy Diary with his 13-year-old height, address, etc. (See Britten's Children, John Bridcut). Even Peter Pears said that Death in Venice was in some ways based on B's "own idyllic childhood". Golden boy, playing on the eternal beach, mother's favourite, "the admiration of all". It makes sense. (On the radio at the moment all the exuberance of the end of the Young Person's Guide is being played.)

Just seen your post, A - so glad you enjoyed it.
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #25 on: 19:01:19, 03-06-2007 »

I went to the opera last night.... super !! meeting someone from the message boards was also rather fun!

Now there's a strange thing. I went last night too and also, very pleasingly, bumped into a fellow MBer. There must have been a lot of it going on last night Smiley

Just to add my enthusiasm for the production too, I agree with what others have said. Very well worth going to and, quite apart from anything else, it was a great and rare relief to see poor old ENO finally putting on something again which was both fresh and triumphantly successful. Bostridge isn't Pears - he couldn't be - but he gave a beautiful and (differently) convincing performance. If there are any haverers here, I'd strongly recommend going. It is radically different from the original production but intelligently and successfully re-thought. As others have said, Jean Kalman, the lighting designer, contributed a great deal to the look and mood of the piece but I'd just put a word in also for the choreographer Kim Brandstrup. I don't know much about these things but I thought the dance element was a huge improvement on what was, for me anyway, the weakest element of the original production (yes, I know it was Frederick Ashton but even so....).   
« Last Edit: 19:13:07, 03-06-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
MrYorick
Guest
« Reply #26 on: 23:16:15, 03-06-2007 »

maybe Aschenbach is subconsciously held back from actually gving the warning because, apart from the fear of being branded some kind of pervert, maybe in a curious way, Tadzio's death in Venice would be a way of keeping the boy eternally alive and thus eternally beautiful in his imagination?

Does he not fail to give the warning, because he maybe half-consciously clings on the morbid and phantasmagorical idea "What if all were dead, and only we two left alive?"  Maybe, devoid of reason in his obsession, he wants the family to die, or rather, doesn't want to play a role in their escape from the city, because... maybe... he could be left alone with his Tadzio without the parental control?
Anyway, that's how I interpreted the libretto.  I wonder if the idea of 'What is all were dead...' is in the novella too?

It's a pity I can't see these British Britten productions (Opera North's Grimes, and now this one), I live in Belgium.  Still, I see on the ENO website it's a co-production with the Théâtre Royal de la Monnaie, Brussels, so I'm hoping!!

« Last Edit: 09:42:17, 06-06-2007 by MrYorick » Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #27 on: 08:15:06, 04-06-2007 »

I wonder if the idea of 'What if all were dead and only we two left alive' is in the novella too?

It is, but only very briefly and only once as against Myfanwy Piper's twice, after Aschenbach's 'Dionysiac' dream (which, incidentally, is hardly touched on visually at all in this production and left wholly to the music).

"But the lady of the pearls stopped on with her family: whether because the rumours of the plague had not reached her or because she was too proud and fearless to heed them. Tadzio remained: and it seemed at times to Aschenbach, in his obsessed state, that death and fear together might clear the island of all other souls and leave him there alone with all he coveted." 

Shameful admission: I'm afraid that 'If I were the only girl in the world and you were the only boy' inevitably comes to mind with Myfanwy Piper's version. Did she/Britten not realise that common people like me would be reminded of that if they weren't very, very careful?   
« Last Edit: 08:23:29, 04-06-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
Mary Chambers
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 2589



« Reply #28 on: 08:27:07, 04-06-2007 »

That didn't occur to me, George, and I'm sure I'm just as common as you! Now you've probably ruined it for me. I may never forgive you Smiley
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #29 on: 08:49:26, 04-06-2007 »

Oh dear, I am sorry, Mary. I hate it when people do that to me Sad. I just assumed I couldn't be the only one. Your 'Smiley' appreciated but even so I now wish I had buttoned my lip.

In the hope of making some sort of amends could I make clear that, having been reading the Thomas Mann alongside the libretto recently, I am just awestruck by how brilliantly Myfanywy Piper has done the job of converting the book into an opera libretto. Someone, in one of the Britten's Operas programmes I think but I can't now remember who, said that they thought Myfanwy Piper was the best of his librettists and I do so agree. And I suppose Aschenbach is mocking himself for his own absurdity more savagely than anyone else could at this point so maybe it's not wholly inappropriate in a way.

« Last Edit: 08:51:51, 04-06-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
 
Jump to: