The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
09:42:34, 02-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Carmen - radio 3  (Read 469 times)
Antheil
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 3206



« on: 18:27:28, 03-11-2007 »

Six minutes to do - live streaming - and available for 7 days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/carmen/
Logged

Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
Antheil
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 3206



« Reply #1 on: 18:49:32, 03-11-2007 »

Forget it, link failed 6 times already  Sad
Logged

Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
Andy D
*****
Posts: 3061



« Reply #2 on: 19:31:17, 03-11-2007 »

Works OK for me - though it's not live.
Logged
Antheil
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 3206



« Reply #3 on: 19:37:52, 03-11-2007 »

I just got it on the R3 broadcast, will try for the video link tomorrow.  Seems really strange to hear Carmen in English doesn't it?
Logged

Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #4 on: 08:29:07, 04-11-2007 »

I haven't seen this production yet, but apparently it is set in England anyhow?  Huh    The fetish for singing operas in the "original language" only emerged in the C20th - until then composers completely expected their work would be translated into the audience's language, and often facilitated and encouraged this practice themselves.   Although there remains a particular group of opera-goers who would always prefer to hear Carmen sung in Spanish...
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #5 on: 08:43:00, 04-11-2007 »

Does anyone else find the whole thing with this ENO/R3 tie-up a little incestuous and overly gimmicky?   First we had people who were obviously the ENO Marketing Division running whole test-marketing topics on the official BBC R3 board,  talking gushingly about "Sally's concept" etc.   Now we have an online stream, which you can see "not only as if from the audience's perspective in the auditorium, but also from behind the scenes"??   Now there's a gimmick I could live without.  Perhaps I am overly cynical,  but this strikes me as a whole new benchmark in the world of "gonzo productions" - operas that you now have to view from behind the scenery??

It looks like the whole world of operacasts (Metropolitan Opera, Glyndebourne, and now the ENO stagehand's-viewcast) is becoming a "genre" of its own...   another nail in the coffin of the live medium?  Sad
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #6 on: 09:21:23, 04-11-2007 »

   The fetish for singing operas in the "original language" only emerged in the C20th - until then composers completely expected their work would be translated into the audience's language, and often facilitated and encouraged this practice themselves. 

Didn't Covent Garden in the C19 do everything in Italian?  Il Flauto Magico etc?  Or was that just British lack of confidence/snobbery?

Callas was singing Wagner in Italian early in her career, wasn't she?  Do Italian opera houses translate everything into Italian even now?  (Browsing the posters in Italy, all titles appear to be translated.)
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #7 on: 10:24:21, 04-11-2007 »

I don't know enough about what happened at Covent Garden in the C19th to say much... but the attitude on this may not have been uniform throughout the period?   Also, there wasn't an "ROH" as we know it today,  as that "role" (of an I"talian Opera by Royal Patent") was the prerogative of the King's Theatre, Haymarket ("Her Majesty's" stands on the site these days) at the beginning of the century. 

AFAIK in the first decades of the C19th, opera actually written in Italian (regardless of the nationality of the composer) was given in Italian, at the King's Theatre, by an exclusive Royal Patent which effectively gave them a "monopoly" on that repertoire.  But everything else (French, German, Austrian, etc) was given in English translation, usually at the Drury Lane Theatre.  For example Dittersdorf's "Doktor und Apotheker" became "The Doctor & Apothecary", and was also foreshortened by around 25-30%...  this was to allow for the prevailing precedent that London audiences expected a Double Bill for their money, and wanted to have a one-act "Afterpiece" comedy after the main piece on the bill.   Somewhere around the house (I've had houseguests and everything is packed away) I've got Kelly's Memoirs...  he was the "Stage Manager" (ie Resident Producer) at the King's Theatre until the 1820's, and the Appendix lists everything they did, including the casts...  so I can check?  This job didn't prevent him presenting "English'd" versions of his own and other works down the road at Drury Lane either...

This question of "patents" was a very important matter in the period - getting around the patent was often the reason for creating an "English" version, with the main numbers retained but new music for other parts either fresh-composed or "borrowed" from other works, so that the result was "substantially different" to the patented work.  One of the very last works to be performed in this odd way was PARSIFAL...  which was premiered in England as a ballet (!), at Oswald Stoll's newly-opened Coliseum Variety Theatre...  the whole thing made up "Act II" of the evening's "variety" bill, and ran for slightly less than an hour...  the score was presumably pirated and rearranged out of a vocal score obtained from Germany?  By presenting a ballet, Stoll avoiding accusation that he'd pirated the "principle airs" of the piece.  Stoll was also on a late-career mission to make "Variety" acceptable to Victorian moral standards and raise the "moral tone" of his programmes sufficiently to achieve his greatest dream...  that His Majesty would attend performances.  This goal was achieved, although regrettably by an ulterior ruse...  the construction of a tiny office in the vestibule to which HRH could slip out and pass the time with chorus-girls until the final curtain. It's still there in the foyer, inside an unfeasibly large triangular "pillar".
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
harpy128
****
Posts: 298


« Reply #8 on: 12:31:08, 04-11-2007 »

I haven't seen this production yet, but apparently it is set in England anyhow?  Huh    The fetish for singing operas in the "original language" only emerged in the C20th - until then composers completely expected their work would be translated into the audience's language, and often facilitated and encouraged this practice themselves.
   

I'd say the first two acts are set in England, the third on a motorway somewhere between England and Spain and the fourth in Spain.

Quote
Although there remains a particular group of opera-goers who would always prefer to hear Carmen sung in Spanish...

Yes, I'm sure that's what Puccini Wink had in mind...

BTW  I'm in the minority who rather enjoyed this production - although it didn't actually seem to be a minority the night I went. Would like to watch the backstage view but am having trouble with my internet connection at the moment.
Logged
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 12:56:10, 04-11-2007 »

the third on a motorway


Yes, the thought "C'est des contrebandiers le refuge ordinaire" has often gone through my mind at the Blue Boar Services, along with "Oh Seigneur! Sauvez moi!" when I glanced into the "Happy Eater".

Neither, however, made me want to dance the Seguidilla  However, the Derby Road in Portsmouth might be just the place to find Frasquita and Mercedes, fresh off the Santander ferry...

The whole idea of "Carmen in England" strikes me as utterly absurd, but I suppose I will give it a go.  I suppose Lillas Pastia is serving Devonshire Cream Teas in this version?  Shocked
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Soundwave
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 572



« Reply #10 on: 13:50:29, 04-11-2007 »

Ho!  I suspect that the move towards original language productions, at least in the U.K., was engendered by the absolutely dreadful translations by the likes of Charles Lamb Kenny, a man who should have been extinguished before he put pen to paper.  One of his worst crimes was in the Norma/Adalgisa duet where the audience were told "Our bosoms will leap in the sunshine and droop in the rain".  Phew!  Another, from Donizetti, "La Favorite", - "List Sire, bootless the duty, see, she comes clad in beauty".  Aaaargh!!  Many a giggle rises as you plough through some old scores with translations.  The English translation of Carmen is fairly decent and acceptable.
Cheers
Logged

Ho! I may be old yet I am still lusty
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #11 on: 14:39:23, 04-11-2007 »

You gave me a giggle with those old chestnuts, SWave Smiley  Another I remember, primarily for its ungainly musical effect, was "Smite the E-e-e-e-e-thi-o-pi-an in-vad-ers..." ("Su del Ni-lo..") in AIDA.
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
harpy128
****
Posts: 298


« Reply #12 on: 17:55:49, 04-11-2007 »

The whole idea of "Carmen in England" strikes me as utterly absurd, but I suppose I will give it a go.  I suppose Lillas Pastia is serving Devonshire Cream Teas in this version?  Shocked

No, it's a nightclub, with a very fine pair of mantilla-clad transvestites.

The music didn't go with the settings, particularly in act 1, and some of the ideas were a bit pea-brained, but at least there were some, and I thought the director was trying hard to make Carmen's predicament real for the audience.

In their "Poppea", by contrast, the "ideas" seemed completely random (remote-controlled squid anyone?) and didn't shed light on anything, grrrr.
Logged
Reiner Torheit
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3391



WWW
« Reply #13 on: 18:44:03, 04-11-2007 »


No, it's a nightclub, with a very fine pair of mantilla-clad transvestites.

Ah, so nothing that hasn't been done a million times before, then?  Wink  Ho-hum, and an elephant's bum...
Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
perfect wagnerite
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1568



« Reply #14 on: 18:47:10, 04-11-2007 »

You gave me a giggle with those old chestnuts, SWave Smiley  Another I remember, primarily for its ungainly musical effect, was "Smite the E-e-e-e-e-thi-o-pi-an in-vad-ers..." ("Su del Ni-lo..") in AIDA.

Not to mention the possibly apocryphal translation (but so good it deserves to be true) of Di quella pira:

"Mother is ro-o-o-o-asting
Down in the co-o-o-urtyard"...

 Grin
Logged

At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to: