Presumably not. I don't know. But there aren't any castrati around now yet that doesn't invalidate the use of mezzos or counter tenors in Handel's operas today. In the case of Fidelio I was simply referring to the long established tradition for bigger voiced singers taking the role of Florestan and stating a personal preference for this to the lighter voiced alternatives (which presumably would've been closer to the voices of Beethoven's day).

That's the only ethically acceptable alternative though!

I wonder if anyone has much idea of what opera singers would have sounded like in the first decade of the 19th century. The pit orchestra would have been smaller for sure, possibly very small. But if you don't concern yourself with that kind of thing that's fair enough of course.

So 'freedom' is only relative when used by a political demagogue? Not sure I'd agree with that (and, yes, I'm aware of the revolutionary origins of the terms left and right). Anyway, in relation to Fidelio my point is that Beethoven sees freedom itself as a kind of absolute value in and of itself. Indeed, IMO the opera asks whether this is itself a form of absolutism  and in this, goes further politically than most other works of this period.

I'm nodding my head here to that.  And yet...  when we do Rossini & Bellini - hardly off-period for FIDELIO - lyric tenors cut through the texture like butter, even in more heavily-scored pieces like SEMIRAMIDE or MOISE.  I wonder if we've "imagined" a pedigree for FIDELIO as a precursor to RIENZI that isn't quite the full story?   Surely most German musical theatres of the time would have had Italian and French works in their repertories... maybe even as the mainstay?  

Unless, of course, you're offering your own services here, Mr S ?  

Another idle thought meanwhile...   it's a proto-feminist opera,  and one of the first I can think of where the Leading Lady has the "action" role (with the gun)... and isn't waiting around for some tenor to save her.   Is this also something that gives audiences and managements difficulties?   Or perhaps the rather contrived "she has dressed up as a man" thing?   (Even though there are several real-life cases where women lived their whole lives in a male persona without detection).

GG, you're a gem: that will be it, I'd have been in my final year at KCL then. Davis as conductor makes sense, and although I'd thought Langdon, Wicks now rings a bell. I rather remember both leads as disappointing: she was squally, and he rather boxy sounding: neither a wonderful actor either, if memory serves.

To return to the Florestan voice: since there's a second tenor (Jacquino) involved in the proceedings, and he's the young lover, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd have been cast originally as a lighter tenor than the other: it's a while since I've heard the piece, but from what I remember it's certainly written that way. OK, so there were no heldentenors as such then, but tenor voices have always come in different strengths and thicknesses: it's very unlikely that they'd have gone for voices that were too similar.

You might be interested in the work of a tenor/writer called Stefan Zucker. I remember seeing a video of him trying to recreate how the original Tonio in Donizetti's La Fille Du Regiment might have sung the 'A mes amis' aria with the nine high C's without using chest voice. Weird, but interesting 

It was staged by Scottish Opera a few years ago (2005-6 season, I think). Very moving too. I do find it rather jarring though when the music stops, they all stop singing and start speaking the dialogue in a laboured school-play sort of manner (probably in rather heavily-accented German on that occasion). The vocal roles did seem quite demanding on the whole.

I wonder if Beethoven had similar concerns?  As I mentioned earlier, the LEONORE version (ie the first outing the piece had, under its earlier title) has several "melodrama" sections,  in which the gear-change from speech into singing is handled by first having declaimed speech over music.  But the gear-shunt back into speech, as you say, can be a bit of a jolt - especially if the dialogue is performed in a stilted way.  Again LEONORE catches my interest more - the use of the Narrator (who is exised from the FIDELIO version completely) eases this shunt considerably - and since he never sings, it can be a good actor with excellent speech skills.  

There's a semi-concert dvd version of LEONORE from Amsterdam,  in which the Narrator works exceptionally hard to keep the action going - I picked up a copy "in a plain wrapping" at MDC in St Martin's Lane two years ago, but I lent it to someone (a conductor - they never give things back...) and can't remember any of the personnel on the dvd.

BTW - which of the (four) possible overtures (Leonores #1, #2, #3, and "Fidelio") are we in favour of for FIDELIO?