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richard barrett
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« Reply #30 on: 00:05:45, 11-09-2008 » |
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Unless, of course, you're offering your own services here, Mr S ?  'Abscheulich' wouldn't even begin to cover it.  What about "inane profundum"? |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #31 on: 00:09:41, 11-09-2008 » |
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Unless, of course, you're offering your own services here, Mr S ? 'Abscheulich' wouldn't even begin to cover it. What about "inane profundum"? Getting closer.  Clearly we are going to have to actually give this opera a listen or two if we're going to live up to the standard of discussion our fellows have set here, aren't we, Richard?  |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #32 on: 00:14:49, 11-09-2008 » |
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Clearly we are going to have to actually give this opera a listen or two if we're going to live up to the standard of discussion our fellows have set here, aren't we, Richard? A listen or six perhaps. I don't have Bernstein sitting on my shelf though. I shall have to think of a cunning plan. Does anyone know Mackerras' recording with the SCO? That would seem to be the one with most chance of getting me interested. |
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opilec
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« Reply #34 on: 00:50:42, 11-09-2008 » |
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Does anyone know Mackerras' recording with the SCO? That would seem to be the one with most chance of getting me interested.
Yes - very good indeed. Probably my favourite, in fact. There are some who find Anthony Rolfe-Johnson too 'light' for Florestan - which might just mean that it will interest you even more! He does get a little bit strained once or twice, but it's a refreshing alternative to the usual heft. I also seem to have the Gardiner Leonore, as well as Klemperer 'live' (a different performance from the ROH run than the one on Testament, IIRC), and Erich Kleiber's Cologne Radio recording with a young Birgit Nilsson. As to the overtures, my favourite is 'No. 1'. Maybe because it's the least well known; but it also seems, once it gets going, to have much of the concentration vitality of the 'Fidelio' overture. And wasn't there a fantastic Toscanini recording with the BBCSO in the 1930s? |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #35 on: 07:56:20, 11-09-2008 » |
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Again LEONORE catches my interest more - the use of the Narrator (who is exised from the FIDELIO version completely) eases this shunt considerably - and since he never sings, it can be a good actor with excellent speech skills. A confused person writes: Is the Narrator really in the original Leonora or was this an addition for the particular concert performance you are referring to? I haven't got the Gardiner Leonora recording but don't remember a narrator in the performances I've heard over the years. There certainly wasn't one in the Sadler's Wells Opera/Mackerras/Basil Coleman production back in (gulp) 1970. The main differences were the original three act structure rather than the two for Fidelio and the restoration of a number of arias that were hacked out when it was turned into Fidelio. And, incidentally, it's a long time ago but I think Mackerras did Leonora No 2 rather than No 1 for that production. |
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« Last Edit: 08:18:37, 11-09-2008 by George Garnett »
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #36 on: 08:13:19, 11-09-2008 » |
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This was one of the favourite operas of our friend in Boston. We used to listen to it at least once every two weeks (in different versions).
I never heard the Narrator part in any of the versions. I don't think there is any narrator in this opera. May be stage directors now introduce them as a help for the audience, but there was no narrator on the records that I used to listen to.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #37 on: 08:49:21, 11-09-2008 » |
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Is the Narrator really in the original Leonora or was this an addition for the particular concert performance you are referring to? Still being in a state of relative, nay complete, ignorance, I can but quote a certain conductor - As an early critic of the opera rightly observed in 1806, "the inanity of the spoken parts entirely, or very nearly, wipes out the beautiful effect of the sung parts". As it happens, Leonore has a more unified narrative and, arguably, greater dramatic thrust than does Fidelio. For our touring version of Leonore, which went to Italy, France, Holland, Germany, the USA and the United Kingdom, we hired a narrator to bridge the gaps between the musical numbers and, in place of the spoken dialogue, to give a skeletal synopsis, a hint of the changing moods of the protagonists and reflections, as though by Beethoven himself, on the political and philosophical unfolding of his music drama. This has been abridged for the present recording by the distinguished German actor Christoph Bantzer, whose script incorporates apposite quotations from Wordworth, Goethe, Hölderlin and Beethoven at key moments in the drama. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #38 on: 11:24:19, 11-09-2008 » |
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Sadly I've been bamboozled - by two different LEONORE performances with a Narrator - into thinking that the part was in the original - evidently it's not. I'm really surprised that a recording that boasts claims to being "Urtext" has played so free-and-easy with the dramatic structure?  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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ernani
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« Reply #39 on: 11:31:46, 11-09-2008 » |
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Has anyone noticed the similarities of plot between Fidelio and Measure for Measure?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #40 on: 11:36:35, 11-09-2008 » |
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Has anyone noticed the similarities of plot between Fidelio and Measure for Measure?
I hadn't before - but a very astute observation indeed, Ernani! Bugger - I'll now have to check the detail! |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Lobby
Gender: 
Posts: 15
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« Reply #41 on: 12:04:00, 11-09-2008 » |
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Reiner,
A good subject, but just to correct a small error in your opening statement, the ROH premiered a new production of Fidelio in May 2007, so they have done it recently and it is in its repertoire.
This 'new' production wasn't, of course, actually new, being the Jurgen Flimm production from the Met, which is also available on DVD. It wasn't very well received if I recall; what is considered challenging on the Met stage, often comes over as old hat elsewhere (and I often feel that London critics have an automatic reaction against shared or borrowed productions - the 'not invented here' syndrome), but I for one quite enjoyed it.
The LSO and Colin Davis also gave concert performances of Fidelio last year with the magnificent Christine Brewer as Leonore, as did the BBCSO (I think) under Mackerras, also with Christine Brewer.
So it has not been entirely absent from the London stage in the last few years.
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"I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever."
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #42 on: 12:44:51, 11-09-2008 » |
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Reiner,
A good subject, but just to correct a small error in your opening statement, the ROH premiered a new production of Fidelio in May 2007, so they have done it recently and it is in its repertoire.
Thanks for the update, Lobby! That imported production slipped me by! |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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George Garnett
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« Reply #43 on: 12:45:00, 11-09-2008 » |
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... as did the BBCSO (I think) under Mackerras, also with Christine Brewer.
The Scottish Chamber Orchestra, and darn good it was too. |
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #44 on: 12:56:44, 11-09-2008 » |
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Without having had a look at the libretto, I can't help wondering how the whole thing would come across without any of the dialogue or narration? Just the numbers, in other words, perhaps with a surtitle synopsis between scenes...
I suppose such a thing would be rather modern in character, presenting a sequence of tableaux rather than a complete narrative - but just how fragmented would it seem without the narrative elements, and would it be worth doing in this way?
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