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Author Topic: Prom 18: BBC Symphony Orchestra - Sir Andrew Davis  (Read 1361 times)
martle
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« Reply #30 on: 12:31:34, 27-07-2007 »

Now, now, chaps, no need to overdo the text size diminuendo trick...  Cool

But it's such FUN, Ollie!
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richard barrett
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« Reply #31 on: 12:58:25, 27-07-2007 »

They gave that not-so-young Barrett chap something to think of too, but I think (as a relative newcomer to RVW) I'd have to give pole position to nos. 5 and 6.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #32 on: 13:25:09, 27-07-2007 »

I think it's time to wean you away from the Haitink box, r, though personally I'll not be pointing you in the direction of Sir A Davis, for any alternative renditions...
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #33 on: 13:34:01, 27-07-2007 »

Yes, Ron. Much as I enjoy Haitink's LPO readings, I think that Handley has the edge in many of the symphonies and this is one of those sets which just cry out ot be snapped up:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaughan-Williams-Complete-Symphonies-Ralph/dp/B00006J3LP/ref=sr_1_1/203-4994897-1606365?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185539376&sr=8-1

At the same time as the Haitink set was being released, the LPO were also recording a cycle for Decca under Norrington, before the plug was sadly pulled. The disc of Nos.3 & 5 was especially good. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-Nos-5/dp/B00000INVA/ref=sr_1_3/203-4994897-1606365?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185539620&sr=1-3

Hickox is also extremely fine and his LSO discs have tremendous Chandos sound.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #34 on: 13:35:16, 27-07-2007 »

Incidentally, of all the works commissioned for the Proms in the last 40 years or so, is there any that's had more performances than the Tippett? It's had three recordings (one, admittedly, from a live performance), and I seem to possess a minimum of seven off-air readings in the archives, at least two of which are from the States. 


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Tony Watson
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« Reply #35 on: 13:55:02, 27-07-2007 »

That Handley RLPO is also worth getting for the music other than the symphonies it contains, especially the Oboe Concerto which is a particular favourite of mine. I remember the Sea Symphony, when it first came out, had balance problems. It was remastered or remixed, whatever it is, and I think they offered to give replacements to those who had bought the original (of which I am one but I didn't bother - the balance isn't that bad and it's my least favourite RVW symphony).

Ron Dough is spot on with his comments about the 3rd and the Previn version. I think the symphony has suffered from being named Pastoral. It has led too many people to listen to it with the wrong preconceptions and just hear it as a gentle depiction of the English countryside.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #36 on: 14:15:46, 27-07-2007 »

The fields that RVW's Pastoral evokes aren't British at all, but the battle-ravaged fields of the WW1 Front, where beautiful sunsets might still occur even though the land was churned to mud and the few remaining trees charred, jagged splinters. It is an elegy for lost times and lost friends, suffused with the ghosts of bugle calls through morning mists and the resigned sadness of personal disappointment.

Those who believe it was anything to do with cows looking over a gate couldn't have been further from the mark.

Tony, I have to admit that the Sea Symphony is the least played of the cycle in my collection: and anyone who considers me a Shostakovich anorak might be staggered to learn that even without the four complete boxed sets (Boult(1), Previn, Haitink and A Davis) which are elsewhere, my RVW symphonies on CD take up over two feet of shelf space. (And that's without the Norringtons, IGI!)
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time_is_now
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« Reply #37 on: 14:18:53, 27-07-2007 »

Does that mean you dislike, or just haven't heard, the Norringtons, Ron?

Because I'd like to hear 3, based on your recommendation, and while I'm tempted to go for the Previn I was also wondering about the Norrington 3 & 5 IGI mentioned (since I'd like to hear a different interpretation of 5, too).
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #38 on: 15:30:03, 27-07-2007 »

# 15          Catching up, George.    I've now transferred the Nichols & May LP to minidisc and the "George"/"Marcia" exchanges are not included -you are so right, the inflections tell all - but Mike Nichols  was working on the screenplay for "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" in 1965, before directing the film for Warner's with the Burtons and it's quite likely that George/Marcia was a parody on George/Martha in Edward Albee's play.

However, the Bach to Bach track has a background piano solo by Marty Rubenstein, as has Rachmaninov's second piano concerto in "The Dentist" - a delicious send-up of "Brief Encounter" with Mike Nichols using Coward intonations to convince Rima that it was her cavities which turned his attraction to infatuation.      "You mean it wasn't my rotting tooth - it was ME you really wanted?"   Finally, he leaves to work in a Leper colony to get over it.   In turn, she decides to devote her life to dentistry in Saudi Arabia.   Shades of  Celia in "The Cocktail Party"?  

"Bach to Bach" is a masterpiece of inspired improvisation and I've been told that the post-coital banalities between the pair after a casual pick-up has inhibited subsequent conversation with several listeners, albeit free from promiscuity. So they say.   There is a wicked sense of toe-curling embarrassment  and sheer delight to hear all the familiar cliches pour forth.

He:         "My family was your usual dull, middle class, burgoise family, I guess."

Her:        "My story is the same.   There was no relating; there was proximity.....but no relating."        

Him:   "When Huxley had him committing suicide to the last movement of the 15th, I understand that so well.    Too many people think of Adler as a man who made mice neurotic.  He was much more, much more."

Her:    "I can never believe that Bartok died on Central Park West."

Him:     "Ugly."

Her:      "Ugly, ugly"      (Listening to Bach)    "I love this part."

Him:      "Here."

Her:       "Here, here.     When I read 'Thus Sprach Zarathustra' it almost hurts."

Him:       "Beauty often hurts.    I know exactly how you feel."

Her:       "Do you know how I feel?"

Him:       "Exactly."

These interchanges should be obligatory in every Drama School.
If you'd like a CD-R, George, drop me a pm.   No trouble, I assure you.

Interesting, too, that Plato's Symposium was also published - in Pelican edition? - circa the mid-60's.      I was in Rep at the time and instead of burning the midnight oil, learning lines, a group of us were dissecting the text.  Thank goodness Mike Nichols wasn't around!

Re "Othello", I think that Iago's first Rabeliasian earthiness is made when he rouses Brabantio from his sleep:  "......."Even now, now, very now, an old black ram is tupping your white ewe.... "

Did you see Peter Hall's production, late 70s, at N.T.     Michael Bryant's chilling Iago, the personification of malice.    A perpetual fixed smile without warmth.    Grr.  Still makes me shudder.          

          
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #39 on: 16:08:18, 27-07-2007 »

Does that mean you dislike, or just haven't heard, the Norringtons, Ron?

Because I'd like to hear 3, based on your recommendation, and while I'm tempted to go for the Previn I was also wondering about the Norrington 3 & 5 IGI mentioned (since I'd like to hear a different interpretation of 5, too).

I've only heard Norrington's thoughts on 3 from the performance he gave with the Stuttgarts at the Proms, t_i_n, - another of his zero vibrato jobs, which hasn't exactly fired me into searching out the CDs: left me totally cold, I'm afraid. At some point, nonetheless, I suppose that in true anorak fashion I'll have to search it (and his other disc of ?4 & 6) out.

If you're after another interpretation of 5, then Barbirolli's where I'd start; he has a freedom, élan and most importantly a spiritual connection which I miss in many other readings. Didn't Andrew Davis once complain about Barbirolli that he 'stops to smell the flowers along the way'? Well, it suits me for better than his propensity for 'motorway' performances, all very technically sound and efficient, a convenient way of getting from A to B, but not particularly pleasurable or memorable: at the end, although I'm certainly aware that I've been on a journey, I seem to have reached the destatination without anything en route really registering.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #40 on: 17:30:03, 27-07-2007 »

There is a wicked sense of toe-curling embarrassment  and sheer delight to hear all the familiar cliches pour forth.

Yes to both, exactly! Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! 

Did you see Peter Hall's production, late 70s, at N.T.     Michael Bryant's chilling Iago, the personification of malice.    A perpetual fixed smile without warmth.    Grr.  Still makes me shudder.
         

I did indeed Stanley. A brilliantly and horribly persuasive Iago. For a man who exuded good nature and fun, that's real acting. IIRC he didn't confide his thoughts conspiratorially into Othello's ear but the two sat far apart at separate (and separate status) desks, Iago in the 'outer office' ostensibly trying to get on with the paperwork rather than having the answers to Othello's questions dragged out of him. Othello didn't have a chance, even if it was Paul Scofield's Othello weighing up each piece of evidence with careful and massive intelligence before being hooked and reeled in.

I'd better stop before I start sounding like a line from 'Bach to Bach', curse them! Cheesy

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Ron Dough
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« Reply #41 on: 16:25:40, 28-07-2007 »

Just a thought on Iago's use of language in Othello. Isn't it a bit of ironic character building on Shakespeare's part? Iago's baser, coarser, and less educated than everyone he's manipulating and seeking to destroy, including the Moor himself.
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #42 on: 17:18:23, 28-07-2007 »

  Yes, Ron, and the frequent references to "Honest Iago" throughout the play.   I had a long standing dialogue with John Fernald about the need to play this aspect of the man with total conviction as there was ample scope for duplicity in the soliliquies.     JF was Principal at RADA and always asserted that he hated my interpretation of Iago at my entrance audition and it was my Lopakhin in "The Cherry Orchard" which swung the Board.   Ironically, I did play Lopakhin, later, but was never offered Iago.

           "A sad tale's best for winter"   
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #43 on: 17:50:12, 28-07-2007 »

Iago's always been my Shakespearean ambition, too, Stanley. I love the dualistic nature of the role: apart from Emilia, no one has any idea at all of his true character: so nice and easy going on the surface that nobody ever sees through to the bitter vengeful schemer beneath. But that second layer has to be apparent: there are the soliloquies of course, but even the way he treats Rodrigo in the first scene allows a little scope to show the audience that there's something quite other going on behind the hail-fellow-well-met exterior.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #44 on: 19:33:14, 06-08-2007 »

At the moment, I'm listening to this concert again on WDR 3:

http://www.wdr.de/radio/wdr3/sendung.phtml?sendung=Internationale%20Musikfestspiele&termineid=377569&objektart=Sendung

The sound quality is much better than on Radio 3. Huh Huh Huh
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