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Author Topic: Prom 40 - Janacek, BBCSO/Boulez  (Read 1383 times)
George Garnett
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« on: 12:40:31, 14-08-2008 »

Only just to say that, while looking for any available information about Paul Wingfield's reconstruction of the 'original' version of the Glagolitic Mass which we are getting tomorrow, I found that if you google 'Glagolitic Mass Wingfield'  Smiley you can get quite sizeable chunks of his Cambridge University Press book on the subject. Only chunks, but 'arfur loaf and all that for those of us who don't possess a copy.

I'm beginning to feel slightly nervous on behalf of the plucky little Concertino which is being asked to take on the vastness of the Albert Hall in between the Sinfonietta and the Glagolitic Mass. That's a big ask. I hope it survives the encounter intact, poor little thing.

[Embarrassed Edit: Go away Peter, Come back Paul. Thanks t-i-n.]
« Last Edit: 14:16:06, 14-08-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
autoharp
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« Reply #1 on: 13:33:22, 14-08-2008 »

Thanks for that, George.

I must say that my impression was that we would not be getting the plucky little Concertino but the goofy little Capriccio(?)
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George Garnett
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« Reply #2 on: 13:45:15, 14-08-2008 »

The goofy little Capriccio would seem to make more sense, autoharp, but the Proms Guide does say Concertino.

[Aha, but the Radio Times says Capriccio. I do beg your pardon. It looks as if someone slipped up when preparing the main Guide. It goes on to describe it as 'the rarely encountered Concertino'. How prescient they were.]
« Last Edit: 13:53:01, 14-08-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 13:49:32, 14-08-2008 »

I'm sure opilec will be along soon to give chapter and verse (unless it's, ahem, not quite politic to do so! Wink), but as I understand it Paul Wingfield's 'reconstruction' is of a version that, interesting as it may be, was definitively rejected by Janacek. It's possible some of the changes he made before the work's premiere were motivated by expediency/practicality, but others were definite 'new preferences to supersede any earlier drafts', and Janacek never wanted to hear his original version.

It's also unlike, say, the 'original version' of Sibelius's Fifth Symphony - a version that was also superseded by the composer's later intentions - in that it was never performed in the composer's lifetime.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
autoharp
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« Reply #4 on: 14:05:56, 14-08-2008 »

I'm sure opilec will be along soon to give chapter and verse (unless it's, ahem, not quite politic to do so! Wink), but as I understand it Paul Wingfield's 'reconstruction' is of a version that, interesting as it may be, was definitively rejected by Janacek. It's possible some of the changes he made before the work's premiere were motivated by expediency/practicality, but others were definite 'new preferences to supersede any earlier drafts', and Janacek never wanted to hear his original version.

More info on that would certainly be welcome.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #5 on: 14:06:53, 14-08-2008 »

Both of those pieces are a bit Janacek à la Malcolm Arnold for my liking.

(runs for his life)
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autoharp
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« Reply #6 on: 14:10:58, 14-08-2008 »

Gosh!
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George Garnett
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« Reply #7 on: 14:18:56, 14-08-2008 »

Golly! Are you sure that's not Peter Janacek's perky Cappuccino you are thinking of?
« Last Edit: 14:20:59, 14-08-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
oliver sudden
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« Reply #8 on: 14:23:25, 14-08-2008 »

Janacek never wanted to hear his original version.

Well in that case I would have liked the chance to sit down with him and a beer and explain why such things as the septuplets in the first movement and also but far more importantly the spectacular timpani passages were at least worth him hearing once. I find it really quite hard to hear the standard version having heard those as he first conceived them, whether he rejected them or not.

The offstage clarinets, to be fair, I can take or leave. Offstage clarinets in general aren't remotely as effective as offstage trumpets I reckon.
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #9 on: 22:57:09, 15-08-2008 »

Both of those pieces are a bit Janacek à la Malcolm Arnold for my liking.

(runs for his life)

Gosh, I thought that was just me, being ignorant  Cool

I thought it was rather terrific  Smiley

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Allegro, ma non tanto
richard barrett
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« Reply #10 on: 00:06:39, 16-08-2008 »

Gosh, I thought that was just me, being ignorant  Cool

I thought it was rather terrific  Smiley

I didn't realise I was making a recommendation!  Grin

I'm glad you liked it. I've become very fond of almost all of Janacek's music, having been virtually ignorant of it until about three years ago.
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Bryn
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« Reply #11 on: 00:45:35, 16-08-2008 »


More info on that would certainly be welcome.

Absolutely, since my understanding was that Janacek revised down to the capabilities of the musicians available, and that further Bowdlerization by other hands preceded the posthumous publication of the simplified version. So come on opi, let's have the griff on this matter. Has Wingfield been leading the likes of Mackerras and Boulez up the overgrown path?

[Having now browsed through that part of Wingfield's text available online, it is clear that the version I had previously been given was rather far from reliable. I have now ordered the Wingfield tome. Should make interesting reading. I definitely prefer the Wingfield edition of the score.]
« Last Edit: 01:22:02, 16-08-2008 by Bryn » Logged
Bryn
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« Reply #12 on: 01:22:56, 16-08-2008 »

Gosh, I thought that was just me, being ignorant  Cool

I thought it was rather terrific  Smiley

I didn't realise I was making a recommendation!  Grin

I'm glad you liked it. I've become very fond of almost all of Janacek's music, having been virtually ignorant of it until about three years ago.

Following in PB's footsteps, eh? Wink
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #13 on: 01:37:09, 16-08-2008 »

As one of the (several) boarders at the RAH for this Prom, I thought it worked well - it was, at least, interesting to hear the Wingfield "completion/reversion/revision" of the Glagolitic Mass,  although I'm not sure I'd want to hear it frequently.  The soprano was so shocking that the work was done a disservice - there was really no knowing what note she was supposed to be singing.  Wouldn't it have been better to get soloists from the Czech Republic for this work, rather than from France?  I thought the (New Zealand) tenor was excellent though, and had super pronunciation of the Glagolitic text (medieval Slavonic).  Janacek really hated mezzos, though, eh?

The Capriccio made a nice change of timbre and scale in the programme, although I'd never heard it before.

I somehow imagined the brass opening of the Sinfonietta should be more imposing and grand than it seemed from where I was standing?  The players were substantially "further up" than we were, and it might be that the unkind acoustics of the Royal Awful Hall favoured those further back, and on the same level?  How was it on R3?

I'm sorry I'll miss the concert performance of OSUD, though - I won't be around for that, and it's a work I admire enormously.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
stuart macrae
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« Reply #14 on: 01:48:24, 16-08-2008 »

The soprano was so shocking that the work was done a disservice

Seconded (from the sofa, as sadly I couldn't be there). You could put down cats with a voice like that.

I thought the (New Zealand) tenor was excellent though

Also seconded - in fact I wrote down his name for future reference - despite some comments to the contrary at TOP... Roll Eyes

I'm only familiar with this version I think (from the Mackerras recording) and I love it. Can't think of any reason not to do it!
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