oliver sudden
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« Reply #30 on: 21:12:02, 08-09-2008 » |
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I couldn't be there alas. I saw it twice in Paris at the end of 2004, the first time with my then girlfriend who grumped all the way through the first two of the three parts they presented it in and then left before the third part. I then went again on my own a few days later.
The final chord is one of the most tremendous things there is although it really does need what comes before it. It doesn't hurt if it's accompanied by (or does it accompany?) the blaze of white light that Messiaen asks for.
Actually it does hurt a little bit but it's in a very good cause.
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harpy128
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« Reply #31 on: 22:39:57, 08-09-2008 » |
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The final chord hurt my ears last night, but there don't seem to have been any lasting ill effects (eh? what was that? etc)
The RAH people made a game attempt to illuminate the empty bench that St F had recently occupied but I wouldn't say it was the most stunning lighting effect I've ever seen. I agree with everyone else that the concert as a whole was vv good though.
I read a rumour that there may be a DVD of this production as staged in Amsterdam.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #32 on: 22:42:53, 08-09-2008 » |
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The RAH people made a game attempt to illuminate the empty bench that St F had recently occupied but I wouldn't say it was the most stunning lighting effect I've ever seen. That's not quite the idea I suspect - at least in Paris a couple of years ago the audience had the lights turned on them. Hard to do in the RAH I guess.
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Bryn
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« Reply #33 on: 22:59:13, 08-09-2008 » |
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I read a rumour that there may be a DVD of this production as staged in Amsterdam.
I sure hope so, Ollie, but I have this nagging fear that somebody may have misread this, which seems to me to refer to the Golijov being recorded for DVD by DG, rather than the Messiaen.
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Bryn
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« Reply #34 on: 23:16:48, 08-09-2008 » |
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I read a rumour that there may be a DVD of this production as staged in Amsterdam.
I sure hope so, Ollie, but I have this nagging fear that somebody may have misread this, which seems to me to refer to the Golijov being recorded for DVD by DG, rather than the Messiaen. Now why and/or how did I confuse Ollie with harpy 128?
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #35 on: 23:35:48, 08-09-2008 » |
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I read a rumour that there may be a DVD of this production as staged in Amsterdam.
I sure hope so, Ollie, but I have this nagging fear that somebody may have misread this, which seems to me to refer to the Golijov being recorded for DVD by DG, rather than the Messiaen. Now why and/or how did I confuse Ollie with harpy 128? Goodness knows, Bryn, but I share your nagging fear since it seems all too probable. Now I do wish you could have heard and seen Christine Schäfer as the Angel. I know I've gone on about this before but it was one of the most wonderful things I've seen in a theatre. Or anywhere. A little bit boyish and cheeky but in the last scene the call of 'François' was an absolute kick in the guts in the nicest possible way. Si l'Ange avait joué de la viole un peu plus longtemps, par intolérable douceur mon âme aurait quitté mon corps...
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harpy128
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« Reply #36 on: 23:46:43, 08-09-2008 » |
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The DVD thing was based on a blog entry by someone who'd seen it in Amsterdam and reported that a couple of performances were filmed for some as yet undisclosed purpose. We'll see. The cast was a bit different there apparently, with Camilla Tilling as the Angel and Tom Randle as Frere Massee.
The final direction printed in the programme is "Everything disappears, everything darkens. The chorus comes to the front of the stage [obviously they didn't]. Only an intense light brightens the place where Saint Francis's body had lain before. This light must grow in intensity right up to the end of the act. When it has become blinding and unbearable, the curtain falls [obviously it didn't]."
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George Garnett
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« Reply #37 on: 01:38:23, 09-09-2008 » |
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That's not quite the idea I suspect - at least in Paris a couple of years ago the audience had the lights turned on them. Hard to do in the RAH I guess.
A RAH-limited attempt was made to do that and, as I had one of the lights pointing straight at me, it sort of worked up to a point but nothing like the blinding face-full when its done in a theatre. The one (and only) error of judgement in the whole evening were some very feeble lighting effects at the back of the platform to accompany the Angel's knocking at the door. It hardly mattered, given that everyone's hair was standing on end from the sound, but someone really should have said 'no' in rehearsal. The singers were, incidentally, placed in front of the orchestra for last night's performance (apart from the angel in two scenes) whereas I believe (Tam?) they were placed behind the orchestra in the Amsterdam performances which I would have thought could only be described as 'brave'. [Edit: Sorry, scrub that last bit about the Amsterdam performances. I misread something I had found on the internet.] I don't think anyone has mentioned the orchestral layout yet. All the strings on the left of the conductor and all the woodwind on the front right. Is that how it is normally done? Or maybe even something that Messiaen specified in the score? It seemed to work very well having the woodwind seated together in a block particularly for the more complex bird-song episodes.
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« Last Edit: 02:41:17, 09-09-2008 by George Garnett »
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makropulos
Posts: 29
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« Reply #38 on: 01:48:34, 09-09-2008 » |
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The DVD thing was based on a blog entry by someone who'd seen it in Amsterdam and reported that a couple of performances were filmed for some as yet undisclosed purpose. We'll see. The cast was a bit different there apparently, with Camilla Tilling as the Angel and Tom Randle as Frere Massee.
The final direction printed in the programme is "Everything disappears, everything darkens. The chorus comes to the front of the stage [obviously they didn't]. Only an intense light brightens the place where Saint Francis's body had lain before. This light must grow in intensity right up to the end of the act. When it has become blinding and unbearable, the curtain falls [obviously it didn't]."
In Amsterdam, apparently, the chorus *did* come to the front of the stage. And I believe the singers were in front of the orchestra rather than behind (the orchestra was on the huge 25m-wide stage with the cast). Since I didn't see it, this is obviously hearsay, but we should all be able to see for ourselves in due course: it was certainly filmed, and a serious effort is being made to get it out on DVD.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #39 on: 08:27:51, 09-09-2008 » |
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some very feeble lighting effects at the back of the platform to accompany the Angel's knocking at the door. It hardly mattered, given that everyone's hair was standing on end from the sound Nordey in Paris had nothing whatsoever. Well, just Frau Schäfer knocking on thin air. That was fine with me.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #40 on: 09:36:32, 09-09-2008 » |
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One of the interval talks on Sunday (by the director) confirmed the fact of the chorus in Amsterdam coming to the front of the stage. If it does exist on film, then even if it takes some time to arrive on commercial DVD, there's a distinct possibility that it may be available from a source in the States rather sooner.
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Bryn
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« Reply #41 on: 11:03:56, 09-09-2008 » |
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #42 on: 11:28:15, 09-09-2008 » |
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I don't think anyone has mentioned the orchestral layout yet. All the strings on the left of the conductor and all the woodwind on the front right. Is that how it is normally done? Or maybe even something that Messiaen specified in the score? It seemed to work very well having the woodwind seated together in a block particularly for the more complex bird-song episodes.
I commented on it to someone behind me in the Arena, who pointed out that it's more or less a stand pit setup for an opera orchestra.
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-- David
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George Garnett
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« Reply #43 on: 12:11:59, 09-09-2008 » |
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Well, just Frau Schäfer knocking on thin air. That was fine with me. That would have done me very nicely too. I've got my Predestination answer ready just in case Frau Schäfer happens to come knocking on my door one day. I do love the fact that Messiaen adheres to that fine structural tradition of the 'comic buffo scene at beginning of Act 2' but goes for profound theological jokes rather than slapstick with buckets of glue and wallpaper. (I do believe though that there might even have been a tuned slapstick in there somewhere.) I commented on it to someone behind me in the Arena, who pointed out that it's more or less a stand pit setup for an opera orchestra. Ah, <embarrassed cough, blushes to roots and beyond>. Thank you, David . I, er, obviously realised that, ahem, but, um, .... ooh look there's an Icterine Warbler?
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« Last Edit: 12:19:01, 09-09-2008 by George Garnett »
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makropulos
Posts: 29
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« Reply #44 on: 12:57:59, 09-09-2008 » |
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I commented on it to someone behind me in the Arena, who pointed out that it's more or less a stand pit setup for an opera orchestra. Ah, <embarrassed cough, blushes to roots and beyond>. Thank you, David . I, er, obviously realised that, ahem, but, um, .... ooh look there's an Icterine Warbler? [/quote] Yes - but standard rules don't really apply for this piece in a theatre; they certainly didn't apply at the Palais Garnier for the première - the pit there is nowhere near big enough to hold an orchestra the size and composition of SFA. At those 1983 performances, the orchestra was all over the place - on stage extensions and in boxes. You see something of this on the TV broadcast that was done at the time (copies of which are in unofficial circulation).
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