Lord Byron
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« Reply #360 on: 13:32:25, 23-08-2007 » |
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'better alone than in bad company' - george washington
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #361 on: 13:34:02, 23-08-2007 » |
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I think it would be presumptuous of any of us to think just because you'd asked us for advice that we were the main factor in your final decision. Yes, it shouldn't be forgotten that for all of us (well, most of us, as far as I know) this online community (and/or whatever others we might be concerned with) is only a part of our lives, albeit an enjoyable, enlightening and, when we need it, supportive one. It's understood by all of us (well, most, as above) that we are more than the sum of our posts. But... but I thought you... err... you mean you're not reading this as I type it?
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ahinton
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« Reply #362 on: 13:41:53, 23-08-2007 » |
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The support people muster on these boards is really moving. It's wonderful to be part of a community.
Well, would just like to interject something here, simply a note of caution (from a lot of experience in this respect). Online communities, or online interactions in general, can be very deceptive - it's far too easy to feel superficially close to people you don't really know, or at least would know very differently if you saw them regularly in real-life. The distance that is provided by the fact that people are speaking from behind computer screens makes it easy to write/say things that you wouldn't do, or at least not so readily, otherwise. And one builds up mental pictures of people (not just in terms of what they look like, but more widely in terms of personality) that again are often far off the mark, and can start spending more 'time' with online friends than real ones. Remember that, for every single person you know online, chances are you are only seeing of them what they want you to see. The medium (in whichever format) is attractive to those who want an easy feeling of community that can be accessed whenever they want; this is an un-maintainable ideal, and as such, when things turn a bit sour between people in that community, it can seem more upsetting than it would in other circumstances. Obviously things are a little different her to some other places, as quite a few of us either knew each other previously, meet, or have met. But bear in mind - in the case of the latter options, even though we might meet from time to time, does that necessarily mean, in the case of any pair or group of people here, that we would otherwise meet regularly (if that were practical) if we only knew each other from a real-life encounter? If not, then one should be sceptical about whether the people can be called genuine friends or not. I'm sorry, people might dislike what I'm going to say here, but I have found the events of the last few days here a little worrying. I wouldn't dream of advising anyone on what to do when a relationship has gone sour unless I knew both people very well indeed. There's always another side, and sometimes neither party really has an idea of what the other feels about things, what their problems are, etc. But the idea of making a decision about whether to stay with someone, or urging one, amongst people who in some cases are strangers one only knows from posts on here - well, what is the word coming to? One's personal future swayed by an online forum?? And Mort, how would you feel if some future partner of yours did the same? Do you think the other people on whatever forum they went to would have a rounded, balanced view of what you, or your relationship, are like, just on the basis of what he had told them? I'm not remotely going to say anything about whether this was the right thing to do or not - I have no way of knowing, nor do most people here. Here people will often tell you what you want to hear - those aren't your real friends. Don't make this 'community' into a substitute for real friends. Like everyone else, I really hope you'll be happy one way or another, but that is a general feeling of goodwill, not a comment on particular circumstances. And I'm saying this as someone who's been heavily involved in musical and political forums for some time, as well as having met many people for romantic or casual encounters from online. The one thing I know above all from that is that wherever possible, one should try and shift one's interactions from online to real-life as soon as is possible (I usually cut people dead if I've been speaking to them for more than two weeks and they won't speak on the phone or something) - it's always very different. Would many people deny that when they first met people from here in the flesh, quite a few of them were very different from how they had imagined them to be? These are indeed wise words, even though their cautionary nature, however salutary, may not necesarily represent quite what every one of their readers here might want to read; I also endorse Richard's later and briefer observation on the subject. I do think that the facility to provide such support as is possible via this medium is a good and positive one, as long as the limitations of the medium (and the concomitant limitations on the efficacy of the support expressed at the distance that it imposes) are properly understood and accepted in advance. I also accept, on the other hand, that there may be times when such sympathetic responses as have been posted here can assume a kind of value not necessarily open to the responses of those who know Mort personally. That said, the need to keep in proper perspective both the virtues and the shortcomings of internet fora in terms of relationships between their members is worth bearing in mind when one visits and contributes to them with any kind of frequency or regularity; that is not in any sense to undermine such fora, of course - merely to counsel gently against ascribing to them something of which they are by nature less than capable. May I now add my own sincere wellwishings to Mort in what has obviously been an unfortunate decision to have had to make, however necessary or right it has been to make it. Best, Alistair
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #363 on: 14:47:46, 23-08-2007 » |
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Ian, you have a point... but not completely. When given the facts of Mort's 'case' it appears that this partner disappeared without trace for days/weeks, wouldn't say where, how long. When he returned he didn't say either... didn't seem to mind that Mort broke up with him.... it is not rocket science to say that not all was well... whether or not this information is on the phone, email, message board or even in a novel. I've said my bit before, I'm not now or otherwise going to comment on what someone presents to relative strangers on a messageboard about the details of their relationship. Of course offering comfort and help is important, but who here really knows what's going on? Once again, to anyone here, if their partner was talking about their relationship on a board like this, do you think the recipients would be in a position to understand the complexities of it, and as such offer good advice? We have all had experience of relationships that went wrong , certainly after 103 years of life I have !! ...so I think any 'advice' or comments to someone who we care about even on the message boards is valid. IHMO. Of course we do, and I would hope that experience might teach us about how such things can be very complicated indeed, much more so than any pigeonhole situation we might like to place them in. One case comes to mind of two people I knew very well, who split up, and I stayed in touch and friends with both of them. If you heard either party talking about what was going on, you'd find it hard to believe either were actually talking about the same relationship. I'm quite proud of having for the most part maintained good relationships with most of my exes. With my former long-term partner, we are still very good friends, meet often, and I get on well with her husband, who is a great guy. And (for all three individuals concerned) there's a recognition of the futility of thinking in terms of blame, rather a recognition that two people simply weren't right for each other for lots of complicated reasons (or at least that's how I'll present it now). But I've seen so often how when, faced with other's break-ups, people try and project the problems of their own former relationships onto these other individuals, and it can be terribly destructive.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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thompson1780
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« Reply #364 on: 15:01:32, 23-08-2007 » |
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Ian,
I just wanted to say thank you for your posts (both of them). I need reminders like that occasionally.
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Kittybriton
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« Reply #365 on: 15:13:56, 23-08-2007 » |
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Breaking up is awful, but staying together when it is all wrong is worse. (IMHO)
Underlined by my own experience.
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Click me -> About meor me -> my handmade storeNo, I'm not a complete idiot. I'm only a halfwit. In fact I'm actually a catfish.
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #366 on: 15:15:52, 23-08-2007 » |
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'better alone than in bad company' - george washington
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Daniel
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« Reply #367 on: 15:58:18, 23-08-2007 » |
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Well I don't think many people would disagree that their 'real' relationships are much deeper, richer and more reliable/permanent than the ones had on messageboards, and that you would more naturally turn to them for opinion, support and certainly for any important life decisions. But I'd also say
- actually I think the words of 'strangers' can be very helpful at times as long as one receives them as just that. Perhaps because they can be expressed with a clarity that is not complicated by the history of your relationship with them. Friends and family have agendas for you and them, however unconsciously, that often colour even the best meant advice, in a way that somebody who knows you less well may be free of. And if someone here decides to put sth up of a personal nature to hear thoughts and comments, knowing from whom they are asking it, I can't see that that is terribly risky for their welfare, is it? I mean they have some precedent from all the interactions with the same people elsewhere on the board.
- also my impression from what people have said in the past on this thread is that they have perhaps had a dark moment brightened or felt some palliative effect just from 'strangers' sending their best wishes and this does seem like a good thing, in fact quite a real thing in a way.
- all imho.
- but to Ian, despite the above, I'd still echo the words of Smashie and Nicey at Radio Fab FM -
'Wise words mate!'.
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #368 on: 16:49:23, 23-08-2007 » |
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I have good friends I can and do confide in, but sometimes I get worried about burdening them with my worries too much, and then (not only then) I think that cyber-support can be a good thing. The fact that people don't really know me is a bonus in some ways - people here won't have too many ideas about what I want them to say, and see problems perhaps more clearly for that.
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A
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« Reply #369 on: 18:36:57, 23-08-2007 » |
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'better alone than in bad company' - george washington
You should know Lord B A
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Well, there you are.
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Baziron
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« Reply #370 on: 19:30:44, 23-08-2007 » |
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'better alone than in bad company' - george washington
You should know Lord B A The original wording - more correct syntactically (even for an American) - was this: "It is better to be alone than in bad company". We might possibly substitute (by way of greater rectitude - both in syntax and sentiment) the following rewording: It is poorer to be alone than to be in good company I am happy with the company on this MB (mostly). Baz
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #371 on: 20:53:48, 23-08-2007 » |
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I love Mary Chambers point. Some times it is easier to unburden yourself to people you don't know than to people you do. We all need sound board to hear what we say and to see people's reaction on that. This board attracted very brights and caring people. People have different points of view and different takes on things and I find it very helpful.
If people have too many negative emotions it created stress and then they get sick. It is much better if one can calm down and accept situation. I wish my English would be better to say things better.
I have nothing smart to tell to Morticiaa. I loved Mary's message very much. I could not say things better myself.
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increpatio
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« Reply #372 on: 10:08:22, 24-08-2007 » |
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Remember that, for every single person you know online, chances are you are only seeing of them what they want you to see. This is, to a different extent, also true of meeting people in person. I do agree with your caution however, agreeing fully with Alistair in that one should recognise the distinction between the two types of "relationships". There are some people I have known in person who I have been entirely unable to communicate with except over the internet (and, much more commonly, vice versa). (but generally I completely agree with what you say). As for my MLC post previously, things are much still the same as they were initially, but the period for appropriate public discussion (insofar as it seemed natural to me) has passed I think, except to say for those curious that I have not yet quite given up. It should probably also be pointed out that uninformed advise is also QUITE common in the real world as well. But yes.
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« Last Edit: 10:11:30, 24-08-2007 by increpatio »
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #373 on: 10:21:20, 24-08-2007 » |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #374 on: 10:47:00, 24-08-2007 » |
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While we should note the words of caution, increpatio makes some very good points in message 376. Just because we meet some people in real life, it doesn't mean they're going to be more genuine, with your best interests at heart. I know a few people who are keen to score points and who go in for one-upmanship to cope with their own insecurities. And I would say there are very few people whom I know inside out.
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