trained-pianist
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« on: 06:46:24, 29-08-2008 » |
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I want to start this thread because I don't know where else I can talk on the subject of customs and culture of different countries.
I want to start with a country of my origin.
First of all if one doesn't really want to hear the answer they say: Good afternoon or good evening, etc.
If one says How are things? That means you are already closer and expect some kind of a reply. Usually there is familiar you in there. If one says How are you (not You) that means you are probably close friends and they expect an answer.
There is no How are You? It is just different kind of expression.
While Russian is to unscrumble his/her sentences, finding nouns, verbs and the rest, putting correct tense etc. The other is worried about his/her endings of the words (cases) and other matters. If one adds difference of culture that conversation could be very confusing.
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« Last Edit: 13:16:18, 29-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #1 on: 07:04:28, 29-08-2008 » |
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What an interesting subject Madame Pianiste! One thing which always worries and offends us is if some one addresses us by our Christian name (sometimes known as our "first name"). We think that Christian names should be kept within the family circle. If some employée or civil servant uses our Christian name, we always write a letter of complaint to his superior and insist upon a written apology.
The odd thing is though that in those countries where these people use Christian names their intention is to be "friendly"; they do not realize that the effect they are having is one of over-familiarity and insult, even. They have not been educated and they simply know no better! It is a matter of manners; why should we desire their friendship?
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #2 on: 07:11:21, 29-08-2008 » |
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I understand your point, Mr Grew, with regard to use of Christian names. It is much better to say formal Mr., otherwise it is too confusing. It is an invitation to be too familiar, too disrespectful.
We (my husband and I) had such a shock when we arrived in the USA. To call each other by Christian name (with no patrimonics) and even address a professor in this manner at the University was unthinkable.
We just could not believe it. You meet professor by chance on the department or in the street and you say to him: Hi Jim or Bill or something (not even Hello which would be also shocking). I nearly had a heart attack. You don't even wait until you come closer to this professor. You simply wave- Hi Jim
In Russia it would be respectful You with all Christian name and patrimonics in place.
P.S. In Russian language they have words for Mr or Mrs, but in my time they did not use them. They would call each other by You with full patrimonic and a family name, but no Mr
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« Last Edit: 13:14:25, 29-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #3 on: 12:56:21, 29-08-2008 » |
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We think that Christian names should be kept within the family circle.
I am glad to think that when Mr Grew was having a whale of a time in the Netherlands some forty years ago, he always addressed any nice young Dutchmen he met as "Mynheer". (Seriously I think Syd has a point - formal address is not necessarily contemptuous and informal address is certainly not necessarily a sign of intimacy.)
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #4 on: 13:24:28, 29-08-2008 » |
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If one is young it is all right to use informal (intimate) you. Students in school or University always call each other informal you, but to call a teacher by name and drag his dignity down is not good.
The formal language is a sign of respect. If every body is on Christian name bases then people are confused.
When I left the Soviet Union and they used Mrs before the name I was so pleased. It was like we were somebody valuable, not some unimportant slave who can be send to some camp any moment.
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« Last Edit: 13:26:11, 29-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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Philidor
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« Reply #5 on: 13:48:23, 29-08-2008 » |
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What an interesting subject Madame Pianiste! One thing which always worries and offends us is if some one addresses us by our Christian name (sometimes known as our "first name"). We think that Christian names should be kept within the family circle. If some employée or civil servant uses our Christian name, we always write a letter of complaint to his superior and insist upon a written apology.
The odd thing is though that in those countries where these people use Christian names their intention is to be "friendly"; they do not realize that the effect they are having is one of over-familiarity and insult, even. They have not been educated and they simply know no better! It is a matter of manners; why should we desire their friendship?
I agree except for one point: servants. It would be unthinkable to address the chauffeur/gardener as anything other than 'Frank' while he should call you ‘Mr Grew’ or use your handle -- 'Your Lordship' or plain 'Baron'. Your wife is 'the lady of the house' or 'her ladyship'. You surely don't permit staff to address you as 'Sydney' or, God forbid, 'Sid' or destroy class distinctions by encouraging both sides to use a handle?  Call me Tony
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #6 on: 14:03:40, 29-08-2008 » |
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When Revolution happened in Russia they got rid of most attributes of social status. Everyone was drugged down (not up) the social ladder.
After revolution members of political elite (high officials of communist elite) were respected.
It is important for people to have curtsy in their daily interraction between people. The way people were treated in shops was not dignified at all. Visitors to the West always told to their listeners how they were treated like royalty.
It could sound like: You know, they show you where to find anything you want. They ask: How can I help you? " If one addresses each other by their full name it can be a sign of friendliness too.
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« Last Edit: 14:13:44, 29-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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Philidor
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« Reply #7 on: 14:13:26, 29-08-2008 » |
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Ms. Pianist. Interesting. One thing I've noticed in Britain is the upper classes may adopt a louder tone of voice, and enunciate more slowly, when addressing the lower classes:
"Frank, have you watered the greenhouses yet?"
"Yes your Lordship."
"Fine fellow! Do the weeding now, there's a good chap."
"Straightaway your Lordship."
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #8 on: 14:17:18, 29-08-2008 » |
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I lived for the majority of time in the United States.
When I was thinking about this thread I thought in terms of different cultural attitudes. I was thinking about how people address each other in different countries.
I remember funny stories about Russians while we were in America. People could not understand why Russians would tell them so much about themselves when they were simply asked: How are You?
It is a matter of beeing polite to tell something and not to ignore a person.
I am not really qualified to talk on the matter you are talking about.
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« Last Edit: 14:22:17, 29-08-2008 by trained-pianist »
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Ruby2
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« Reply #9 on: 14:31:53, 29-08-2008 » |
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I lived for the majority of time in the United States.
When I was thinking about this thread I thought in terms of different cultural attitudes. I was thinking about how people address each other in different countries.
I remember funny stories about Russians while we were in America. People could not understand why Russians would tell them so much about themselves when they were simply asked: How are You?
It is a matter of beeing polite to tell something and not to ignore a person.
I am not really qualified to talk on the matter you are talking about.
I gather Americans visiting this country for the first time can also have communication problems like this. I had some correspondence with a lady who became very confused about the number of people who seemed to be asking if she was OK and started to think maybe she looked ill. Of course "Y'alright?" or just "Alright?" is quite a common greeting here and doesn't expect a response beyond "yeah, you?" Similar to the whole "How are you?" thing. If you were about to drop dead you'd still be expected to say "Fine thanks." I've even been known to have that conversation walking into the doctor's surgery. 
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #10 on: 14:35:04, 29-08-2008 » |
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I agree except for one point: servants. It would be unthinkable to address the chauffeur/gardener as anything other than 'Frank' while he should call you ‘Mr Grew’ or use your handle -- 'Your Lordship' or plain 'Baron'. Your wife is 'the lady of the house' or 'her ladyship'. You surely don't permit staff to address you as 'Sydney' or, God forbid, 'Sid' or destroy class distinctions by encouraging both sides to use a handle?
I have never been or employed a servant, but I believe it was usual to address them by their family names. Bertie Wooster only finds out in the final book that Jeeves is called Reginald. With women domestic servants, I understand from my reading of C19 literature, a parlour maid would be "Smith", but a housekeeper, or cook "Mrs Smith" irrespective of whether they were married.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #11 on: 14:41:46, 29-08-2008 » |
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[...] the subject of customs and culture of different countries. [...] Another one: on no account blow your nose in a Hong Kong restaurant. If you do, the usual deafening hubbub will of an instant cease and in the sudden silence four hundred faces will gaze open-mouthed at you.
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Ruby2
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« Reply #12 on: 14:49:43, 29-08-2008 » |
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[...] the subject of customs and culture of different countries. [...] Another one: on no account blow your nose in a Hong Kong restaurant. If you do, the usual deafening hubbub will of an instant cease and in the sudden silence four hundred faces will gaze open-mouthed at you. That's certainly worth knowing. Just found this on Yahoo answers, which horrified me: Cloth Napkin Ettiquite? Is it wrong to blow your nose with the cloth napkin they give you at those fancy restaurants? I say no if you turn your head away from the table so as not to get your germs on those you're eating with.
Some people... 
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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George Garnett
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« Reply #13 on: 14:56:33, 29-08-2008 » |
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Similar to the whole "How are you?" thing. If you were about to drop dead you'd still be expected to say "Fine thanks." I've even been known to have that conversation walking into the doctor's surgery.  The other side of the coin is that when you bump in to your doctor in the street they go to great lengths never to risk saying 'How are you?' Another trap for the unwary is when introduced to academics. Don't ever say politely "Oh, so what are you working on at the moment?". They will tell you.
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« Last Edit: 15:05:51, 29-08-2008 by George Garnett »
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Philidor
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« Reply #14 on: 15:17:43, 29-08-2008 » |
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Another trap for the unwary is when introduced to academics. Don't ever say politely "Oh, so what are you working on at the moment?". They will tell you.
Philip Larkin - Vers de Société My wife and I have asked a crowd of craps To come and waste their time and ours: perhaps You'd care to join us? In a pig's arse, friend... (Asking that ass about his fool research)
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