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Author Topic: The Obligato Recitative  (Read 1214 times)
Sydney Grew
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« on: 13:38:32, 12-05-2007 »

In 1909 Schoenberg named the fifth of his Five Orchestral Pieces "The Obligato Recitative." What did he actually mean by that phrase?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1 on: 13:39:58, 12-05-2007 »

Perhaps his mind had been turned by the portentous, yet unmentionable, event of the preceding year?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Tony Watson
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« Reply #2 on: 13:58:28, 12-05-2007 »

According to Wikipedia, all titles were added reluctantly by the composer upon the request of his publisher.
« Last Edit: 15:28:36, 12-05-2007 by Tony Watson » Logged
Baziron
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« Reply #3 on: 22:33:42, 12-05-2007 »

In 1909 Schoenberg named the fifth of his Five Orchestral Pieces "The Obligato Recitative." What did he actually mean by that phrase?

Possibly that - being an American - it was a way of signifying that he didn't know the correct spelling of obbligato.

Baziron
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John W
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« Reply #4 on: 23:46:21, 12-05-2007 »

Possibly that - being an American - it was a way of signifying that he didn't know the correct spelling of obbligato.

Baziron

That's it !!! End of story  Roll Eyes
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #5 on: 08:47:04, 13-05-2007 »

. . . the correct spelling of obbligato.

This will not do. It has been our experience, gained over the course of a good number of years, that those who most confidently and forcefully put forward an assertion, generally have the least justification for doing so.

Let us then simply cite one or two recognised authorities; that is all that will be necessary to dispose once and for all we trust of this regrettable canard.

First the Oxford English Dictionary. It tells us that in the Italian language "obligato" [sic] formerly signified "obliged" or "obligatory."

Secondly the esteemed authoress George Eliot, who wrote "Don't think about reading Silas Marner, just because it is come out. I hate obligato [sic] reading and obligato [sic] talk about my books."

Thirdly there is Thomas Mathais in his well-known satirical poem The Pursuits of Literature:

    And with Raimondi's fire, and warlike art,
    Play'd some French General's
obligato [sic] part.

Fourthly we find the admirable Edward Hopkins (author also remember of the authoritative work "The Organ, its History and Construction") writing here in George Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians: "An accompaniment may be either 'Ad libitum' or 'Obligato' [sic]. It is said to be Obligato [sic] when it forms an integral part of the composition."

Fifthly there is Edward Holmes, in whose delightful little biography of Mozart we read "The scena and rondo, with pianoforte obligato [sic]."

And sixthly of course there is Benjamin Britten, composer of the song-cycle "Nocturne, for tenor, seven obligato [sic] instruments and strings," his opus 60.

So here we walk hand in hand with brave Benjamin Britten, best known for his having assembled the popular "War Requiem" and several operas which despite their dealing with risqué subjects are nonetheless all the more rewarding for that.



What do all these authorities have in common? It is that they use the spelling "obligato" of course; and what a relief that will be to Members!

Incidentally and although it has no real bearing upon the rest of this message it may nevertheless interest those Members with a penchant for European languages to know that in our own score of the Five Pieces in the German Eulenburg edition the movement in question bears the German title "Das obligate Rezitativ."

As far as we have been until now able to ascertain, the expression signifies a recitative accompanied by an entire orchestra rather than by continuo alone. It was used in the eighteenth century at moments of intense dramatic crisis or mental confusion (particularly madness), and in magic scenes, and is to be distinguished from recitativo semplice. Is that all Schoenberg too intended then? He did not have much of an operatic background at this point so we continue to wonder. . . . The movement is certainly more fun than the third, entitled simply "Farben" (Colours).
« Last Edit: 14:38:17, 13-05-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Bryn
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« Reply #6 on: 09:08:52, 13-05-2007 »

Obligatto - an obliging cat?

Obbligato is, of course, correct. Obligato is but a less frequently encountered variant which is tolerated by some, (though not by the spell-checker incorporated into the word processing software used to compose this message).
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smittims
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« Reply #7 on: 09:53:11, 13-05-2007 »

I know the reason behind the title, but it is not for those who do not respect Schoenberg enough to deserve it.

It a bit like the statue on Plymouth Hoe,which has but one word : 'Drake'. My Dad told me that this meant 'if you don't know who Drake was, you don't deserve to know'. 
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Baziron
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« Reply #8 on: 10:02:32, 13-05-2007 »

Well at least Members (including even the admirable Dr. Grew) got my little joke - I expected something like "No he wasn't American! Does the Member not know that he was born in Vienna in 1874, and merely expired in Los Angeles in 1951".

Ignorance of the Italian language does not excuse writers - however eminent they may have been - from a carelessly incorrect spelling of an Italian word.

Baziron
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #9 on: 10:14:49, 13-05-2007 »

My Peters edition score has the same German title as Sydney's. I'm intrigued by smittims' comments. I respect Schoenberg. Don't I deserve to know? Or is it a case of if you have to ask what the price is you can't afford it?

Chambers and Collins dictionaries allow one b, but the Oxford Companion and the Guardian Stylebook don't. As for the English misspelling an Italian word, the French and Germans also go for one b.
« Last Edit: 15:40:55, 13-05-2007 by Tony Watson » Logged
George Garnett
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« Reply #10 on: 10:27:15, 13-05-2007 »

Can't we blame the Italians for misspelling a Latin word? Smiley
« Last Edit: 18:30:53, 13-05-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
Baziron
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« Reply #11 on: 10:59:35, 13-05-2007 »

Can't we blame the Italians for misspelling a Latin word?
We could blame the Italians (and the Germans, French or even the Americans) for anything. But it seems somewhat illogical that we should take over all these Italian terms (i.e. recitativo secco, Adagio, Allegro, concertante, ripieno, bel canto etc. etc...) only to decide to "reprimand" the Italians for the single linguistic infelicitude of having preferred to develop their own word obbligato from the Latin obligatus (-a-um) by adding the extra b. I always assumed that our anglicised form for recitativo (i.e. "recitative") was an inevitable expression of our regard for its clear Italian derivation.

I have no comment upon the attitude of the French or Germans in their dropping of the second b of obbligato. Perhaps they just resent the imposition of Italian words into their music (and we must notice here that the French and Germans generally used musical terminologies only in their native languages - in that respect the English were always more "European" in outlook!).

Baziron
« Last Edit: 12:02:12, 13-05-2007 by Baziron » Logged
smittims
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« Reply #12 on: 11:44:05, 13-05-2007 »

Sorry Tony,not aimed at you. .I'm just sick of these snivelling sneering backhand swipes at Schoenberg that I see from time to time.

It's so falsely clever and negative.Let's all slag off Mozart,Beethoven.Bartok or Monteverdi,or point out the weaknesses in Schubert ;what fun,show how superior we are.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #13 on: 14:15:29, 13-05-2007 »

May be many composers are doing it to protect their individuality. You have to think that you have something to say that is different than others. Therefore many things they say are a starting point for a debate.
« Last Edit: 15:49:28, 13-05-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
Tony Watson
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« Reply #14 on: 15:47:26, 13-05-2007 »

More important than the spelling (I prefer one b because it agrees with obligatory) is the meaning of the word. We all know that it properly refers to something that must be played, but some composers have used the word to indicate a part that is optional - examples, anyone? - so each piece of music has to be taken on its own merits. I wonder whether Schoenberg fell into that trap?

And on the subject of the spelling of Italian words in English, concertos and concerti are commonly seen but I've also seen concertoes more than once!
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