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Author Topic: The Graupner bug  (Read 1864 times)
eruanto
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« Reply #30 on: 11:05:55, 06-07-2007 »

His manuscript is usually so clear that one of his contemporaries (it may even have been Telemann, I can't find the source just now) said you could hardly tell his manuscript from a professional copy.

An article I printed out has this to say:

"Graupner had a reputation among others for the excellent calligraphy of his original manuscripts and copies, to which he devoted the closest attention. Mattheson remarked on this in 1740: 'his handwritten scores are of such beauty that one could take them for engravings'".

Who is this Mr. Mattheson?

Article here: http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/magazine/composers/2004/02/20204.php
Quote on page 2: http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/magazine/composers/2004/02/20204_2.php
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #31 on: 11:24:29, 06-07-2007 »

That's the one! Ta.

Mattheson was the author of Der vollkommene Capellmeister, an essential book for Baroque studies which seems to be a bit unavailable in English at the moment.

He also nearly ended Handel's career before it had started.

On the other hand he did also write in Das Neu-Eröffnete Orchester (1713):

"The so-called chalumeaux may be allowed to voice their somewhat howling symphony of an evening, perhaps in June or July and from a distance, but never in January at a serenade on the water."

("Den so genandten Chalumeaux mag vergönnet seyn / dass sie sich mit ihrer etwas heulende Symphonie des Abends etwann in Junio oder Julio, niemahls aber in Januario auff dem Wasser zum Ständchen / und zwar von weitem hören lassen.")

Nobody's perfect.

(In fact I'm not entirely sure about that translation (it's not mine) - I wonder if the bit about 'from a distance' might refer to January rather than July, in which case it would be just a little less uncomplimentary...)
« Last Edit: 20:26:29, 06-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
oliver sudden
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« Reply #32 on: 11:28:29, 06-07-2007 »

"Many people have the talent to come up with thousands of good ideas on the spot out of their free Spirit: because they are furnished with a strong power of imagination. On the other hand when the quill should be taken up, the master is not at home, since the power of thought does not go deep enough. Others set to with an incomparable will; and have not the slightest power, to carry out something extem-pore, without time for reflection. Those, who first discover their thoughts through improvisation, even of the wildest art, and gradually submit themselves to profounder things, exhibit the most fire, and are truly the best of all ..."

The aforesaid Mattheson.

http://www.amazon.de/vollkommene-Capellmeister-Faksimile-Johann-Mattheson/dp/3761801009
« Last Edit: 11:32:35, 06-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
Chafing Dish
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« Reply #33 on: 15:00:13, 06-07-2007 »

("Den so genandten Chalumeaux mag vergönnet seyn / dass sie sich mit ihrer etwas heulende Symphonie des Abends etwann in Junio oder Juilo, niemahls aber in Januario auff dem Wasser zum Ständchen / und zwar von weitem hören lassen.")
I'm afraid the less flattering interpretation does present itself more readily. Sorry, Ollie.

Nonetheless, Mattheson was an influential theorist and composer. More theorist than composer, but still.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #34 on: 11:18:05, 07-07-2007 »

Oo, look! A CD-ROM with pdfs of the manuscripts of 5 Graupner overtures and a concerto. That'll keep me busy over summer... Smiley

(A huge thank-you to Dr Oswald Bill, and to Dr Sylvia Uhlemann and Susan Kleine of the Universitäts- und Landesbibliothek Darmstadt Handschriften- und Musikabteilung.)
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #35 on: 00:45:54, 08-07-2007 »

This afternoon, I found myself browsing in unchartered territory in HMV...the somewhat limited Graupner section, of which I bought half, namely this delightful disc of wind concerti, now spinning:



http://www.stradivarius.it/scheda.php?ID=801157011011498
« Last Edit: 00:48:35, 08-07-2007 by Il Grande Inquisitor » Logged

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oliver sudden
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« Reply #36 on: 09:09:17, 08-07-2007 »

There's certainly some lovely stuff on there... guess where I bought my copy! (Yes, HMV.)

Here are some other recommendables:



On the left, Pierre Verany PV794114; some of the sendspace files are from there and it's not too hard to find online. On the right, PV796103; only one Graupner thing on here but for chalumeau fans a must. Includes important solo pieces from Paganelli and Fasch through to Hoffmeister (a concerto from 1780, in other words well into Mozart's time).



On the left, Vox temporis CD 92 009. This is probably the hardest one here to find but it's really good. Igor Bettens and friends, again there's some stuff on sendspace. Includes some overtures for 3 chalumeaus alone and the trio for bassoon, bass chalumeau and continuo. On the right, Analekta AN29115; La Speranza on sendspace comes from the recorder overture on this.



L: I imagine a Darmstädter Clavierbuch would look a bit different nowadays. Anyone know this one? Soly is probably the only person getting Graupner's stuff recorded in a serious way at the moment, both on her own and in her ensemble series. R: ...although yes, good point, there's Rampe as well. A bit less intimate in approach and I haven't quite made up my mind about this one.



cpo 999 592-2, easy to find at www.jpc.de. This is also less intimate but it's quite good - two overtures (one with horns, one with flutes) and a cantata. (Surprisingly enough given that it's German and Baroque it's about death not being such a horrible thing.)
« Last Edit: 09:24:41, 08-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #37 on: 09:59:29, 08-07-2007 »

The Graupner Mensa Sonora disc was the one that really grabbed me in the sendspace stuff, Ollie, and that disc is currently winging its way over to me from France (Amazon France marketplace seem to have greater availability than the UK). Go on then, I'm getting the chalumeau disc from the same source too!

The other half of HMV's Graupner selection was one of the Soly discs.
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #38 on: 15:23:40, 08-07-2007 »

Now I'm completely confused.

I have a recording from the Das Kantatenwerk of Bach's "Mein Herze schwimmt in Blut" with an arduous oboe obbligato aria to set "Stumme Seufzer, stille Klagen"

Now I picked up the Ensemble Musica Poetica disc from iTunes which includes both Bach and Graupner settings of this cantata text.



...except that the cantata attributed to Graupner on this new disc is identical to the one attributed to Bach on the Kantatenwerk CD.

The one attributed to Bach is clearly a shorter and less ambitious work... though not uninteresting by any means.

Is this an error attributable to iTunes or on the disc? Anybody have this CD? (P.S. don't reply by telling me what a bad service iTunes is -- I already know it's not perfect, but a convenient way to get things I'm only semi-interested in)
« Last Edit: 15:38:49, 08-07-2007 by Chafing Dish » Logged
oliver sudden
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« Reply #39 on: 23:30:15, 22-07-2007 »



Here's an odd thing. It's from a Graupner cantata, Gelobet sei der Herr täglich. The top three lines are chalumeaus. Fine. The bottom four lines are strings and continuo. Also fine.

The fourth line is? What do you reckon?



I think that's a better size than it was when the following helpful hint appeared Wink ...I don't use Windows any more though!
« Last Edit: 23:36:30, 22-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
Ian Pace
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« Reply #40 on: 23:34:08, 22-07-2007 »

(Sorry it's too small and too big at once. Still coming to grips with the exporting scores as graphics thing.)
Save it as a BMP Windows bitmap, then edit it using Microsoft Office Picture Manager - easy to crop like that.
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #41 on: 00:40:24, 23-07-2007 »

Lemme guess... it's a bass chalumeau?
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #42 on: 08:10:58, 23-07-2007 »

Nice thought, but no. In fact it's not a woodwind instrument.

(The three chalumeau lines are for what are normally called alto, tenor and bass, the upper three in this picture. That C should be a c of course. Graupner didn't write for the lowest one as far as I can find out, which was mainly used in Vienna at the beginning of the 18th century, so a bit earlier than Graupner was writing. The use of bass clef is probably because bassoonists seem to have played the chalumeau parts.)

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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #43 on: 15:42:31, 23-07-2007 »

Four timpani?  Grin

Do you know it yourself and are quizzing us, or is it not known?
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richard barrett
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« Reply #44 on: 15:59:35, 23-07-2007 »

Baritone horn, obviously.
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