|
richard barrett
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: 19:54:50, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I can go and ignore it all and watch rugby.
Oh, is there a match on tonight? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Michael
|
|
« Reply #16 on: 19:55:48, 20-10-2007 » |
|
Ian,
Should you wish to put yourself forward as moderator (Though I can't personally see why you would want to after reading your thread on M&S) you would go through the same procedure as anyone else. Should you be seconded you would go to the vote just like anyone else.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
oliver sudden
|
|
« Reply #17 on: 19:59:40, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I am crawling out of my recent `lurking` corner to fourth or fifth Ollie for mod and to add my support for the case of having 3 Moderators. I`d be very happy to second another member as a Mod, but they haven`t put their name forward yet.
Er, Mort, if you look at message 1 you'll see there are already four candidates. (Richard, I suspect Mort may have been referring to a specific other Member... who I also suspect has now been both seconded and thirded without even having to nominate himself.) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
A
|
|
« Reply #18 on: 19:59:43, 20-10-2007 » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Well, there you are.
|
|
|
|
Morticia
|
|
« Reply #19 on: 20:00:23, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I am crawling out of my recent `lurking` corner to fourth or fifth Ollie for mod and to add my support for the case of having 3 Moderators. I`d be very happy to second another member as a Mod, but they haven`t put their name forward yet.
Er, Mort, if you look at message 1 you'll see there are already four candidates. A, if you exercise a little patience and let the process run its course, taking part if you wish, with any luck we won't have to bother ourselves with such wrangling any more. Richard, when I first read that post I swear the Nominations weren`t there. Honest ! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #20 on: 20:01:02, 20-10-2007 » |
|
It should be clear from your posts/quoted that YOU are NOT concerned about the interests of the majority of R3ok forum members whereas I am. No, I just think a forum should allow for a plurality and diversity of opinions, types of threads, and styles of postings, and it seems wrong that one strand should be able to impose its desires on the others, when the reverse rarely happens. As has been said on numerous occasions, if some people don't like/aren't interested in certain types of threads, why can't they simply skip them and/or start some new ones? As long as things are kept in the appropriate places on the boards, and if new threads are started if things start going highly off-topic, why is further content regulation necessary? Michael - I realise all that. Actually, I'm as undecided about things as anyone, I'm just putting forward other perspectives that occur to me. A single board would be the ideal option, I reckon, but it should combine the best of both. Other than the fact that so far the community is relatively small compared to this one, and there are rather a lot of professional musicians involved (but this is only after two weeks), what are anyone's problems with M&S? Does it not have it's own specific qualities over and above simply be a replica of part of r3ok? And wouldn't the best type of messageboard allow for some of those as well? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
MT Wessel
|
|
« Reply #21 on: 20:02:45, 20-10-2007 » |
|
He wouldn't accept even if that were serious. Maybe, but I'd rather have you inside the tent pi ...  . Welcome back to the madhouse.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
lignum crucis arbour scientiae
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #22 on: 20:07:39, 20-10-2007 » |
|
Just to add to my #66 (please take another look at it, John, I don't think it's anything obscure), for what it's worth, IMO a plural messageboard should also be open to, say, those who reject most modern music, or reject a necessary connection between music and society, or any other viewpoints. It's when certain viewpoints are deemed acceptable for discussion, and others not (save for such things as explicit racism and the like) that problems seem to arise. I would personally have no problem whatsoever with any of John's views on things on any forum I am involved with, nor with Reiner's save for the personal attacks.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
Michael
|
|
« Reply #23 on: 20:09:26, 20-10-2007 » |
|
To be really brutally honest here, I'm not all that concerned about what a lot of average classical-music listeners think about various things, knowing as I do the snobbish and smug culture that surrounds classical music per se. I'd be more interested to talk about some of the more difficult and contentious issues with a non-classical-music-enthusiast (which is not to idealise some 'common man/woman') than many of them. But the narrow field of middle class classical music goers makes up the majority of the r3ok membership - fine, Sorry to quote from the M&S boards, but... Correct me if I'm wrong Ian, but it feels that you are saying that most of the content of R3OK is intellectually beneath you, as are the majority of posters. Everyone likes a discussion every now and again, and for the most of it I don't have a problem with the content, but I do generally have a problem with the intellectually combative style with which you tend to conduct yourself. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
richard barrett
|
|
« Reply #24 on: 20:09:47, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I just think a forum should allow for a plurality and diversity of opinions, types of threads, and styles of postings, and it seems wrong that one strand should be able to impose its desires on the others
I refer the Member to messages 12 and 16. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Bryn
|
|
« Reply #25 on: 20:10:05, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I can go and ignore it all and watch rugby.
Oh, is there a match on tonight? Yup, and England are already handing it on a plate to South Africa. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
harmonyharmony
|
|
« Reply #26 on: 20:13:00, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I don't think that a thread like this is a suitable place for the wrangling that's going on.
If Ian and John can't settle their differences civilly, I suggest that they adjourn to the Argument area because I can't be bothered to trawl through all of this again.
Ian - if enough people want Music & Society to continue, I suspect it will.
John W - just because Ian doesn't share your values, it doesn't mean that he's a trouble maker. Just because he doesn't appear to be interested in the majority of r3ok posters shouldn't really matter while he's a poster and not a moderator.
Can we please just get on with nominations (and procedural clarifications if necessary)?
Thanks
I'm going to a party now so don't trash the place while I'm gone.
Please.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
|
|
|
Morticia
|
|
« Reply #27 on: 20:13:55, 20-10-2007 » |
|
I can go and ignore it all and watch rugby.
Oh, is there a match on tonight? Yup, and England are already handing it on a plate to South Africa. Ahh, there`ll be singing in the Valleys tonight, then!  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
MT Wessel
|
|
« Reply #28 on: 20:15:46, 20-10-2007 » |
|
Cor blimey Bryn. It's a rough game that rugby. Have you seen the shape of the ball at the finish?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
lignum crucis arbour scientiae
|
|
|
|
Ian Pace
|
|
« Reply #29 on: 20:18:14, 20-10-2007 » |
|
To be really brutally honest here, I'm not all that concerned about what a lot of average classical-music listeners think about various things, knowing as I do the snobbish and smug culture that surrounds classical music per se. I'd be more interested to talk about some of the more difficult and contentious issues with a non-classical-music-enthusiast (which is not to idealise some 'common man/woman') than many of them. But the narrow field of middle class classical music goers makes up the majority of the r3ok membership - fine, Sorry to quote from the M&S boards, but... Correct me if I'm wrong Ian, but it feels that you are saying that most of the content of R3OK is intellectually beneath you, as are the majority of posters. I will correct that, most adamantly. I've argued in print that my view on music is not necessarily any more valid than that, say, of the bus driver who lives next door to me, or of those who run the Indian restaurant round the corner. This is not remotely about anyone being 'intellectually beneath me', it's about rejecting the in-group/out-group mentality that surrounds a lot of classical music appreciation. The reason why I was attracted to these boards (and I'm quite sure I'm not alone here) is that the community here included a significant contingent of those who had different perspectives to those of average classical-music listeners. Otherwise one could simply go to many other forums. Everyone likes a discussion every now and again, and for the most of it I don't have a problem with the content, but I do generally have a problem with the intellectually combative style with which you tend to conduct yourself. Fair enough - I don't see it as combative, just that I think one should be able to express one's views, whatever they are, and enter into a debate with others, even if their views are diametrically opposed. Sydney Grew's views on many things are at the opposite end of the spectrum to my own, but they force me to sharpen up my own thinking on various matters, and I value that. And I have no problem with SimonSagt's expressing his views, either. It's all far too easy simply to discuss only with those one agrees with on most fundamentals. I have found, more widely (including in situations where I'm not personally involved), that those whose opinions tend to run counter to a prevailing consensus are perceived as 'combative' or 'difficult', whereas those closer to that consensus less so. A lot of what seem relatively innocous views on here would be perceived as very contentious on r.m.c.r., say. It's often less about the style as about how much one is expected, in terms of one's views, to 'fit in'. And if the latter is a demand for posting on a forum, that can be extremely limited. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 21:14:10, 20-10-2007 by Ian Pace »
|
Logged
|
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
|
|
|
|
