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Author Topic: Contemporary music for Breakfast  (Read 3306 times)
John W
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« on: 12:47:22, 12-04-2007 »

Thanks to Rob this morning I listened for the first time to Sonata No 7 for Prepared Piano by John Cage  Shocked

Eh, I admit that I found it interesting  Undecided

Are the previous 6 very similar? Are they different at every performance?

Just curious, now.  Smiley


John W


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pim_derks
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« Reply #1 on: 13:11:02, 12-04-2007 »

Cage's Sonatas and Interluded are very interesting indeed, John.

Cage was in fact a very great composer. I'm not very interested in his experimental work, although I like his radio work (Roratorio for instance). I have a feeling that the pieces he actually wrote down were his best.

I've also noticed that his pieces for prepared piano always sound very different. I think this has to do with the way the piano is prepared. The performance by Gerard Fremy on ETCETERA for instance, sounds very different from the one Aleck Karis made on BRIDGE. I don't believe the only reason for this is the way these two pianist play. The prepared piano music of Cage always sounds different, rather like the different sound of Mozart being played on a Steinway or on a piano forte.
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John W
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« Reply #2 on: 13:15:20, 12-04-2007 »

Thanks pim,

I've resisted the temptation to actually find out  Smiley so, is the 'preparation' very exactly defined or does the performer have some choices in that department?

John W
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pim_derks
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« Reply #3 on: 13:28:35, 12-04-2007 »

I have a catalogue edited by Dick Raaijmakers of an exhibition that was held in The Hague more than ten years ago about "open" instruments. In this catalogue there is a chapter on Cage's prepared piano. It quotes from a text by Cage called Composition as Process (1958): "The materials, the piano preparations, were chosen as one chooses shells while walking along a beach." Then follows a long list compiled by Mrs Monika Fürst-Heidtmann, who wrote a book in German about the prepared piano. I will put up this list later on, I don't have enough time now. I will also put up some Sonatas by Cage. Smiley
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Bryn
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« Reply #4 on: 13:36:00, 12-04-2007 »

John. there is a table of preparations supplied with the score, (it was also included with the original LP edition of the 25 Year Retrospective Concert at New York Town Hall in 1958, and IIRC, with the LP issue of John Tilbury's recording of the work (recently re-issued on Explore Records, but without the table of preparations and also with a dodgy track edit, which does not cause a problem if you play the CD straight through).

The original instruments movement caught up with Cage a good while back. The first modern recording to be made on the same model piano that Cage based his measurements on was made by Philipp Vandré in the mid '90s. That CD (Mode 50) does reproduce the table of preparations in its booklet. However, the use of a Steinway "O" is only half the story. The chances are that Vandré used preparations different from those originally used by cage. This aspect is discussed by Margaret Leng Tan in a feature included on her DVD recording of the work. I rather like that recording, which, as mentioned elsewhere on these boards, is accompanied by a cricket. Cage would have approved, without doubt.
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Bryn
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« Reply #5 on: 13:43:34, 12-04-2007 »

My mistake, the Explore re-issue of the Tilbury recording does have the table of preparations, but you might need a magnifying glass to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_of_John_Cage is also worth a glance.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #6 on: 13:59:22, 12-04-2007 »

It should be pointed out for John's benefit, though, that Cage's Sonatas and Interludes are precisely notated and not "aleatoric with respect to performance". If you look at the score it looks like conventional piano music. Also, some types of preparation vary more or less between different types of pianos than others do. Attitudes towards it range from Steffen Schleiermacher's painstaking reconstruction of exactly what Cage would have heard, to John Tilbury's (more Cagean in a way) attitude that if he gets a more interesting sound by tweaking the measurements (whose exactitude loses its importance on different models of piano anyway) one way or the other, then why not.

The music is always recognisable no matter who's playing it, so, John, the point I'm struggling to make here is that if you liked Sonata no.7 you'd probably enjoy the rest of the work too.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #7 on: 17:25:27, 12-04-2007 »

John, here's the list by Monika Fürst-Heidtmann I told you about:



 Smiley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #8 on: 17:40:02, 12-04-2007 »

It's never occurred to me before that that looks like the specification for an organ registration.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #9 on: 17:46:06, 12-04-2007 »

It's never occurred to me before that that looks like the specification for an organ registration.

Very good! Gene Carl, the writer of this chapter on Cage, compares the preparing of the piano with the preset of a synthesizer.
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
richard barrett
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« Reply #10 on: 17:55:22, 12-04-2007 »

Not in the sense of a "factory preset", of course: some piano rental firms stipulate that their pianos won't be prepared, nor should any plucking of strings or other dangerous shenanigans go on within their august frames.

Gene Carl has written some rather interesting music himself.
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Bryn
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« Reply #11 on: 17:58:11, 12-04-2007 »

from http://blog.spiralcage.com/?p=32 :

"Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano (John Tilbury)

"A single grand piano in the center of the stage lit by a white flood light. John comes out in his trademark black leather jacket and sits at the piano. He looks at the first page of the score and then begins those familiar opening notes of the Sonatas and Interludes. After he plays each section he would stop and turn the page. Then we would again examine the page, putting a gap and some silence between each of the sonatas and interludes. A prepared piano never sounds exactly the same and the preparations can shift and subtly evolve during the course of a performance. Of course some parts will be a bit slower or faster and the sound of the room is always different as well. So this piece, which John has played so many times, was familiar yet different. But it was absolutely sublime and fascinating to watch John play it. He would cross hands often to play treble notes with his left hand and bass with the right, most dramatically in Sonata IVX with the simple melodic phrase being played with the left hand whilst underneath it the right continuously massages a couple of keys. Then the left hand would cross back over and pick up a note or two.

"Gordon Mumma was overheard saying about seeing Tilbury; “I came for the Sonatas and Interludes, I just put up with all the rest.” This was the musical event of the year for me, my favorite pianists playing an amazing piece of Twentieth Century composition in an excellent setting."
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John W
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« Reply #12 on: 22:57:19, 12-04-2007 »

John, here's the list by Monika Fürst-Heidtmann I told you about:

Pim, many thanks for the list of Cage's prepration steps.

Looking at it I have to say, though, that I am not impressed by Cage's methods. All that measurement and work should have gone into creating a new keyboard instrument, don't you think?

If, to create his music, he had to severely alter the sound of an instrument that took centuries to perfect then he should have respected that perfected instrument and gone off in a corner somewhere and made his own instrument, the Cageophone or whatever. This has definitely put me off listening to the other 6 sonatas  Undecided


John W
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Bryn
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« Reply #13 on: 23:10:40, 12-04-2007 »

John, you really could have found this out with a bit of Googling for "Cage" and "prepared piano", but the origins of his use of preparations lay partly in the influence of Henry Cowell, but mostly in necessity. He was asked to write some music for a dance. He was mainly known for writing music for his percussion ensemble at the time, but there was no room for such an ensemble in the venue, but there was a grand piano, so tried modifying the sound of that piano to create a wide range of timbres somilar to those associated with a percussion group. Later he refined his method, reaching its peak in works like the Sonatas and Interludes and the Book of Music for Two Pianos.

He did invent new instruments, each time he worked out a new set of preparation for a new piece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepared_piano is pretty reliable.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #14 on: 23:16:34, 12-04-2007 »

John, that criticism of yours is a bit nonsensical (and by the way there are sixteen sonatas, and four interludes). At the time (1938) when he first devised the prepared piano, he had become known as a composer of music for percussion ensemble, and his "invention" was a way of making this percussion ensemble music using only one player, an instrument which could be reliably found almost anywhere, and a bag of screws and rubbers. Beautifully practical and beautiful in sound. What more could you want?

Oops, sorry, I was writing that simultaneously with (but slower than) Bryn. Anyway, John, how could something like that put you off listening to the rest of the cycle? That mystifies me somewhat. I mean, either the music sounds attractive to you or it doesn't, right?
« Last Edit: 23:21:39, 12-04-2007 by richard barrett » Logged
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