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Jonathan
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« Reply #91 on: 22:18:41, 24-05-2008 » |
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Well, June has the release of an orchestrated version (by Leo Weiner) of the sonata in B minor - http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NR_June08/AVI8553012.htmNot quite sure how it would work as an orchestral piece but I know Constant Lambert orchestrated some of it for a ballet. It might be worth a listen! Also this month: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NR_June08/0016282BC.htm (including Der Loreley, The Two Gypsies (an excellent piece, also arranged for violin and piano by the composer) and the 3rd Liebestraume in it's original guise as a song). There's also http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NR_June08/2564698255.htm - another pianist I've not heard of. Might well be worth a listen as well especially as he is sufficiently gifted to attempt the horrendously difficult paraphrase on the Wagner Lohengrin Wedding March! |
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Best regards,
Jonathan
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"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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increpatio
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« Reply #92 on: 00:46:55, 07-06-2008 » |
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Well, June has the release of an orchestrated version (by Leo Weiner) of the sonata in B minor - http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NR_June08/AVI8553012.htmNot quite sure how it would work as an orchestral piece but I know Constant Lambert orchestrated some of it for a ballet. It might be worth a listen! Curious indeed. Might track it down some time. I have a chamber version, I think for woodwind octet or something along those lines, lying about somewhere. |
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martle
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« Reply #93 on: 09:14:56, 07-06-2008 » |
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Over the last three years or so, several of my orchestration students have had a stab at orchestrating the B minor sonata, or bits of it. It has proved curiously resistant to convincing treatment - and I'm not quite sure why, since (even) less likely Liszt piano pieces have come up trumps. So I'd be interested to hear that recording.
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Green. Always green.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #94 on: 11:17:12, 07-06-2008 » |
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I'm sure I've said this here before, but Heinz Holliger's arrangements of Nuages gris and Unstern are quite astonishing. (Kagel's Unguis incarnatus est for low-pitched instrument (usually cello) and piano is also largely based on Nuages gris, and tries to make it more spooky than it already is, not really succeeding in my opinion.)
I am planning at some point to investigate Liszt's orchestral music. There doesn't seem somehow to be much talk of it either here or elsewhere.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #95 on: 19:05:07, 08-06-2008 » |
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Hi All, Martle - I agree about the Heinz Hollinger transcriptions - there is also one by Adams of La Lugubre Gondola called "The Black Gondola" which is excellent. Richard - I agree, his piano music overshadows the orchestral music rathe a lot! Giandrea Noseada's set on Chandos (vol.4 due out later this year, apparently) have been exlemprorary and are well worth getting hold of. Now, at last, I have another recomended Liszt CD - this one: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//88697065002.htm I bought it today in Banks in York and it is superb |
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Best regards,
Jonathan
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"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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martle
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« Reply #96 on: 20:02:30, 08-06-2008 » |
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Jonathan, it was Richard who mentioned the Holliger arrangements, not me! But I've heard that Adams one and agree it's very good.
I was wondering if you had any observations on my comment that the B minor sonata seems problematic to orchestrate (compared with other, equally 'pianistic' pieces). I think you said you'd done Liszt arrangements yourself in the past - any orchestrations?
Also, if you had to recommend a 'way in' to Liszt's orchestrational practice, where would one start?
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Green. Always green.
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Jonathan
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« Reply #97 on: 20:10:00, 08-06-2008 » |
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Jonathan, it was Richard who mentioned the Holliger arrangements, not me! But I've heard that Adams one and agree it's very good.
I was wondering if you had any observations on my comment that the B minor sonata seems problematic to orchestrate (compared with other, equally 'pianistic' pieces). I think you said you'd done Liszt arrangements yourself in the past - any orchestrations?
Also, if you had to recommend a 'way in' to Liszt's orchestrational practice, where would one start?
Sorry Martle, having a strange time just now so hence my confusion! I can't think why the sonata would be hard to orchestrate, after all, Liszt himself orchestrated the Hungarian Rhapsodies and some Schubert Marches which were for piano. I would start with the Faust Symphony and again, I would recommend Noseada. |
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Best regards,
Jonathan
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"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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autoharp
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« Reply #98 on: 22:59:44, 08-06-2008 » |
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Jonathan
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« Reply #99 on: 18:22:09, 09-06-2008 » |
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Hmmm, most interesting autoharp...
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Best regards,
Jonathan
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"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #100 on: 04:33:11, 10-06-2008 » |
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« Last Edit: 17:06:20, 10-06-2008 by Turfan Fragment »
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #101 on: 16:12:46, 12-06-2008 » |
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TF - I was very interested in your now-expunged post about a lack of self-reflexivity in some Liszt symphonic poems - it would be great if you would post it again. I know exactly what you're getting at, though it's an issue not just in Liszt but many other composers as well - often conceptualised in terms of the dichotomy between early 19th-century German romantic ideas of transcendence and autonomy as opposed to mid- to late-19th century realism (this divide was initially conceived in terms of art history, and later theorised more fully for 19th century music, not least by Dahlhaus; Taruskin makes a lot of this in his recent writings). Brahms in particular holds out against the later development, which was associated with the New German School. Arguably Germanic modernism (and some other varieties) constitutes a modified continuation of that earlier tradition which fell into relative decline after 1848.
But, in terms of the aspects you criticise in some Liszt, I'd be interested to know how you feel about similar issues in the case of Mussorgsky, Bizet, Rimsky-Korsakov, the pre-war Ravel, Messiaen, or Sciarrino?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #102 on: 18:10:29, 12-06-2008 » |
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The post was not saved by me -- I felt it had no place here, and required a better formulation really. And I would have a better one if I weren't so disinclined to apply myself to it properly at this time. Briefly: I see the poems that I did listen to as purely rhetorical music that is technically very polished and worth learning something from; I complained that it wasn't 'self-reflexive' but I think if ALL art was self-reflexive we'd be on a different planet. So, the post was more about me than about Liszt. Music that reflects upon itself as a medium is a phenomenon one can observe throughout music history (not excluding Liszt's work), and it is what pushes music 'forward' in the broadest sense of that term, since it at least hints at the disjunction btw poesis and poema, between unmediated expression and the medium itself. Unmediated expression would mean the medium was absent would not it? Thus music like Die Hunnenschlacht is false because it pretends to be unmediated expression when actually it's just highly refined rhetoric. Ugh, I sound so Teutonic-Modernist. Not sure I can talk about the case of Mussorgsky, Bizet, Rimsky-Korsakov, the pre-war Ravel, Messiaen, or Sciarrino
in those same terms, let alone in one set of terms. Let me withdraw and think about this for a while. |
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Jonathan
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« Reply #103 on: 17:32:54, 22-07-2008 » |
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And, as expected I find myself back here! Ok, just last weekend bought the latest Naxos Liszt release which is of his own 2 piano versions of the Symphonic Poems and so far it is excellent. I shall listen to more and get back possibly later on. I'll also say that the Wass / McCawley recording of the transcription of the Beethoven Choral Symphony was every bit as good as their live performance in York early last year (see my review elseware). I've also found via Amazon a CD that I have been searching for for MANY YEARS - Liszt's complete works for piano trio (coupled with Chopin's early Piano Trio, Op.  so am very pleased about that as well. |
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Best regards,
Jonathan
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"as the housefly of destiny collides with the windscreen of fate..."
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #104 on: 23:11:40, 22-07-2008 » |
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Chopin's early Piano Trio, Op. I love it when that happens! opus number coool haha! When rhetoric becomes to highly refined, one has reached a stage of musical decadence after which revolution is in order. |
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