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Author Topic: A Liszt Thread  (Read 3943 times)
Ian Pace
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« on: 00:27:09, 09-06-2007 »

OK, Liszt came up in 'The Happy Room', so maybe we can have a general Liszt thread? Jonathan was talking about Edition Musica Budapest volumes of Liszt, the Csárdás Obstiné and Csárdás Macabre and the various Mephisto Waltzes came up. Wondered what anyone's thoughts were on Liszt's music on general, from the various stages of his life, how he stands in relationship to other nineteenth-century music, and so on?

Incidentally, a large number of Liszt pieces can be downloaded for free here.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
trained-pianist
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« Reply #1 on: 00:35:33, 09-06-2007 »

Thank you Ian for interesting information (free downloads).

I only know one Mephisto Walz which I will never play in my life.
I used to listen to it every time I had my lesson because one boy played it before me.
I liked it (Liszt was highly regarded in the USSR, may be still is).

Do you play all Liszt Mephisto Waltzes?

To me Liszt is a great man, complex personality, good musician, great pianist, fascinating man.

I like some of his music and don't care for other. I am still discovering him. I recently discovered Palm trees (or something like that from Swiss travels). As a young person I would not like it, but learning it with an intelligent student I found that the piece is not bad at all.

I find that Liszt learned and improved as a composer all his life.
I love his show off pieces (Rhapsodies, paraphrases etc), I like some of his songs (lorelei), I love his concerto (hidious for some people).
I like his Miphisto Waltz, so some parts (like in concertos) I don't like.

His orchestral music is very interesting and should be played more.
I should learn more about him still and his music.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #2 on: 00:43:34, 09-06-2007 »

I only know one Mephisto Walz which I will never play in my life.

Do you play all Liszt Mephisto Waltzes?

Only played the first and third in concert, but can play the four of them. No. 2 I think is a bit weak.

Quote
I love his show off pieces (Rhapsodies, paraphrases etc), I like some of his songs (lorelei), I love his concerto (hidious for some people).

You mean the First Concerto, in E-flat? Actually, I think that's one of the most perfectly conceived of all concertos and one of Liszt's strongest works, however hackneyed it has become.

Quote
His orchestral music is very interesting and should be played more.

YES! Haitink recordings of the Symphonic Poems are very worth hearing. Have you ever heard the oratorio Christus?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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« Reply #3 on: 00:47:37, 09-06-2007 »

I don't know how people can learn so much music and how they can keep all of it in their head.
My head is very bad. If I memorize one thing I lose the other (like a computer with limited capacities). Now I am not sure I even can memorize.
I admire people who know so much music and plus can play it in concerts.
E flat concerto is a good one. What about the second one.
It is not bad I think, but now as good.

It is so nice to be so talented. I think I may be a little talented, but I am not very talented.

What are you reading about Liszt?
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #4 on: 00:58:02, 09-06-2007 »

Books on Liszt I'd recommend, as requested elsewhere by t-p:

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« Last Edit: 02:33:24, 10-10-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #5 on: 15:41:31, 09-06-2007 »

Much of Liszt's most beautiful music - like that of Schubert before him, that of Rachmannineff and many others after him, and even at times that of Mozart and Bach - is beautiful precisely because it makes use of one specific harmony. The chord in question has several names, the most commonly used among which is the "half-diminished seventh."

We emphasise that the beauty of this chord is inherent, in of and for itself, regardless of any progression within which it may be embedded. Let us look at a few examples of its use in the expert hands of Liszt, specifically in the renowned third of his Three Dreams of Love, opus 168. The poem it sets, by Freiligrath, urges us to "love as long as we are able" and to "be careful with our tongue."

It comes first at A, and evidently moves the composer to linger long upon it, introduce a flourish, and feel justified thereafter in venturing off into the remote but all the more effective key of B major!


The theme here is marked "with passion" and "more animated," and this time (at B) Liszt uses our chord in the third bar.


Then at C D E and F he even contrives a short but interesting and effective sequence based upon this same chord; a fascinatingly beautiful thing which had probably never been done in that way before.


Finally, at G and H, we see this same thrilling combination used to accompany and justify the use of two sequences of consecutive fifths!


« Last Edit: 03:14:43, 15-06-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
richard barrett
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« Reply #6 on: 16:21:05, 09-06-2007 »

We emphasise that the beauty of this chord is inherent, in of and for itself, regardless of any progression within which it may be embedded
I would imagine that this comment doesn't extend to its frequent use in jazz progressions.
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Baziron
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« Reply #7 on: 16:29:25, 09-06-2007 »

The Doctor (in message #5 above) is to be praised for his analytic insight into the harmonic writing of Liszt. But I must suggest that the chord he marked as A - different from all the others highlighted - is in fact not a decorated form of the diminished 7th, but rather an augmented 6th chord (the E in the RH is still a natural, thereby forming an augmented 6th against the Gb in the bass).

Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing more of his insights into Liszt's harmonic writing.

Baz
« Last Edit: 16:33:25, 09-06-2007 by Baziron » Logged
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #8 on: 18:31:20, 09-06-2007 »

A Member has rightly drawn our attention to an error in our musical examples, which has now been to the best of our limited ability corrected. We earnestly hope because we shall not for several days be in a position to undertake further corrections that no further errors will be discovered.
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ahinton
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« Reply #9 on: 19:37:07, 09-06-2007 »

The examples cited by Member Grew, if written as seventh chords in root position, are surely identical to the famous Tristan chord, are they not?

Best,

Alizstair
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tonybob
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« Reply #10 on: 21:03:21, 09-06-2007 »

am i right in remembering that the etude sans tonalite uses the tristan chord (before tristan existed, that is...)?
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sososo s & i.
Chafing Dish
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« Reply #11 on: 21:04:35, 09-06-2007 »

The examples cited by Member Grew, if written as seventh chords in root position, are surely identical to the famous Tristan chord, are they not?

Best,

Alizstair
Yes - but the Tristan Chord is in its virgin form spelled F-B-D#-G# rather than F-Cb-Eb-Ab, thus emphasizing the upward tendency of the treble fourth.
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ahinton
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« Reply #12 on: 21:41:40, 09-06-2007 »

The examples cited by Member Grew, if written as seventh chords in root position, are surely identical to the famous Tristan chord, are they not?

Best,

Alizstair
Yes - but the Tristan Chord is in its virgin form spelled F-B-D#-G# rather than F-Cb-Eb-Ab, thus emphasizing the upward tendency of the treble fourth.
True, of course, but it nevertheless remains the same aurally.

Best,

Alistair
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #13 on: 22:10:02, 09-06-2007 »

The examples cited by Member Grew, if written as seventh chords in root position, are surely identical to the famous Tristan chord, are they not?

Best,

Alizstair
Yes - but the Tristan Chord is in its virgin form spelled F-B-D#-G# rather than F-Cb-Eb-Ab, thus emphasizing the upward tendency of the treble fourth.
True, of course, but it nevertheless remains the same aurally.

Best,

Alistair
Sherbet it is still not identical, any more than a german sixth chord is identical to a dominant seventh, or a peel is identical to appeal.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #14 on: 19:32:40, 10-06-2007 »

am i right in remembering that the etude sans tonalite uses the tristan chord (before tristan existed, that is...)?

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« Last Edit: 02:34:29, 10-10-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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