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Author Topic: Now spinning  (Read 89672 times)
ahinton
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« Reply #1110 on: 10:43:24, 31-08-2007 »

re Agon in live performance, I've only heard it once, conducted by Oliver Knussen, and when I commented to someone afterwards that the ensemble had sounded very messy I was told that quite the opposite, it was a considerable achievement to have got it as close as it had been given the physical distance between the instruments a lot of the time (this was in the Albert Hall at the Proms, incidentally - did you hear that performance, Ron? 2003 I think).
I certainly heard the performance to which I think you are referring - live, that is, rather than on BBC R3; if I recall correctly, this was the one in which the British première of Carter's Boston Concerto also featured. I suppose that much may possibly have depended on whereabouts in the hall one was sitting (or promming), but it sounded clear enough to me; I much preferred the Carter, though - and OK has quite an impressive track record with Carter's work.

As an aside, I cannot help but think that it was rather a good thing that the commission that Carter receivd for that work did not come from the Warsaw Philharmonic...

Best,

Alistair
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1111 on: 10:49:06, 31-08-2007 »

I would have to admit that's pretty convincing evidence, Ron. However, a nice modern recording with realistic speeds (and balances?) would be very welcome.



I'd forgotten this one (probably on account of the cover, a real terror): it's on its way, though; he's a conductor with a favourable track record in Stravinsky AFAIC.....
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1112 on: 10:51:24, 31-08-2007 »

if I recall correctly, this was the one in which the British première of Carter's Boston Concerto also featured
That's the one. I was in the hall too.
Quote
As an aside, I cannot help but think that it was rather a good thing that the commission that Carter receivd for that work did not come from the Warsaw Philharmonic...
Indeed! Cheesy

I'd forgotten this one
That's the one I've got, Ron - I seem to remember it's quite good. In fact, I was planning to spin it this weekend anyway, as Movements and the Huxley Variations are long overdue a listen.
« Last Edit: 10:53:50, 31-08-2007 by time_is_now » Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
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« Reply #1113 on: 10:58:04, 31-08-2007 »

I'd also like to mention that that this piece seems to have had a huge influence upon Tippett, not least in the effect it seems to have had on his sound world in the gear-change between The Midsummer Marriage and King Priam.

Now that's one of those revelatory Ron comments that changes the way you think of things. That had never occurred to me before.

I can't find anything about it in Moving Into Aquarius, tinners, (there's, surprisingly, far more than I had remembered about The Rake's Progress though). There is this bit in The Twentieth Century Blues which may have been what you were thinking of:

"Particularly stimulating for me was his [John Minchinton's] conducting of a late work of Stravinsky, Agon, in 1958, which was germane to my current compositional enterprise, King Priam. From Stravinsky's instrumentation I derived some clues as to how to deploy an operatic orchestra in an entirely new way - treating solo instrments as equals both within the ensemble and against the voices on stage, writing for heterogeneous mixtures of instruments."

I must have read that before but it hadn't sunk in previously.
« Last Edit: 11:00:09, 31-08-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
richard barrett
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« Reply #1114 on: 11:02:15, 31-08-2007 »

rather a good thing that the commission that Carter receivd for that work did not come from the Warsaw Philharmonic...
Indeed! Cheesy
Here's a possibly relevant list I once made of some unusual place-names in Belgium and Holland. I'm not sure whether any of these places have symphony orchestras though.

Bong
Burst
Coo
Ee
Erps-Kwerps
Grave
Leek
Linger
Lull
Odeur
On
Perk
Pin
Roost
Roy
Soy
Spy

I TOLD you people I couldn't afford CDs at the moment and now you make me order this MTT Stravinsky disc.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1115 on: 11:06:44, 31-08-2007 »

George, when I said Moving into Aquarius of course I didn't actually mean Moving into Aquarius! Do you have a copy of this book? Does it have an index? (I'm not at home so I can't check mine.) I'd hate to send you on another wild goose chase but I think it might be in there somewhere. The Twentieth-Century Blues quote says the same thing but is not the specific quote I had in mind, if you see what I mean.

Richard, you could always just send me a message ... Wink
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Ron Dough
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« Reply #1116 on: 11:16:38, 31-08-2007 »

r, you didn't have to buy it (though it's not exactly a bank breaker).
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George Garnett
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« Reply #1117 on: 11:19:19, 31-08-2007 »

Do you have a copy of this book? Does it have an index? (I'm not at home so I can't check mine.) I'd hate to send you on another wild goose chase but I think it might be in there somewhere.

I do indeed, tinners, and it does have an index. Several references to Stravinsky works (including a whole Chapter on Les Noces) but nothing on Agon it would seem.

[Later: There's a brief passage on the Agon/Priam resonances in Chapter 4 of Ian Kemp's book Tippett, The Composer and His Music (page 344 in the edition I've got) but the quotes from Tippett that he uses are essentially the same ones as in 20th Century Blues.]
 
Incidentally the best performance I have heard was Abbado with the LSO but then, as we have recently been reminded Smiley, he is an absolute master of orchestral balance. A wonderful Stravinsky conductor IMHO but AFAIK he doesn't programme him so much these days and, having just done a quick google check, there doesn't seem to be a recording.
« Last Edit: 12:01:33, 31-08-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #1118 on: 11:33:50, 31-08-2007 »

Oh dear. Sorry, George. I shall have to try and re-wire my fused synapses and get back to you on that one.

I find all this Abbado stuff rather odd, given the generally low reputation of his recording of 'the Gruppen' (as I'm henceforth going to call it). But then I'm just a new music weirdo, I guess I don't know anything.

Off to spin Kondrashin's Mahler 7th, from a box which turned up extremely quickly given that I only ordered it on Wednesday!
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
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« Reply #1119 on: 11:51:34, 31-08-2007 »

Oh dear. Sorry, George.

Not at all! I love this sort of thing and have got quite excited by the whole Agon/Priam connection.
« Last Edit: 12:00:37, 31-08-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
ahinton
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« Reply #1120 on: 11:53:54, 31-08-2007 »

rather a good thing that the commission that Carter receivd for that work did not come from the Warsaw Philharmonic...
Indeed! Cheesy
Here's a possibly relevant list I once made of some unusual place-names in Belgium and Holland. I'm not sure whether any of these places have symphony orchestras though.

Bong
Burst
Coo
Ee
Erps-Kwerps
Grave
Leek
Linger
Lull
Odeur
On
Perk
Pin
Roost
Roy
Soy
Spy
Fascinating indeed - yet I don't think that even any one of these (assuming it does have a symphony orchestra) could quite have competed with Elliott Carter's Warsaw Concerto in the Addinsell_to injury stakes...

Best,

Alistair
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1121 on: 12:05:05, 31-08-2007 »

Richard, you could always just send me a message ... Wink
r, you didn't have to buy it (though it's not exactly a bank breaker).
Thanks guys, er, I really wanted it for the cover, er, Veronika made me do it. Mind you, I would really like to have a listen to Priam one of these days, I haven't heard that since before I jettisoned the LP collection in '93  Kiss

Abbado is a strange case. For someone whose "commitment" to contemporary music is so often mentioned, he doesn't actually stray past the first couple of decades of the twentieth century that often. I seem to remember reading somewhere that he doesn't like spending a lot of time rehearsing, which wouldn't have done Groups any favours at all.

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richard barrett
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« Reply #1122 on: 12:06:33, 31-08-2007 »

Addinsell_to injury

Excellent!  Cheesy
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George Garnett
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« Reply #1123 on: 12:23:29, 31-08-2007 »

Abbado is a strange case. For someone whose "commitment" to contemporary music is so often mentioned, he doesn't actually stray past the first couple of decades of the twentieth century that often.

As well as Gruppen, there was some Nono and Dallapiccola when he was with the LSO in London but they did tend to be hall emptiers Cry  (But I appreciate you said 'not that often', and it wasn't, possibly because of the hall-emptying factor.)   
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1124 on: 12:29:05, 31-08-2007 »

The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
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