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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1125 on: 12:38:48, 31-08-2007 » |
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The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
And does simple repetition make things into hall-fillers? Does the history of reception of contemporary atonal music demonstrate that? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1126 on: 12:40:43, 31-08-2007 » |
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At one point, Abbado was considered by BAL and the (then still sober) Gramphone to be the Stravinsky conductor par excellence; for both (though never for me) his Sacre was a top recommendation. Bearing in mind that his early discs included Janácek, Hindemith and Prokofiev, he seems to have moved his repertoire's centre of gravity markedly over the years.
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Biroc
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« Reply #1127 on: 12:44:23, 31-08-2007 » |
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Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum, Peres)
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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MrYorick
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« Reply #1128 on: 12:55:55, 31-08-2007 » |
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Here's a possibly relevant list I once made of some unusual place-names in Belgium and Holland. I'm not sure whether any of these places have symphony orchestras though.
Bong
Burst
Coo
Ee
Erps-Kwerps
...
Ahem...  |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1129 on: 13:20:54, 31-08-2007 » |
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The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
Doesn't scholarly accuracy demand that you keep the font size of the parenthetical phrase in the same proportional relationship to the rest of the quotation as it had in the original? Probably - that's just what the quote function does to things (changes the basic size, but not the subsizes within). |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1130 on: 13:28:05, 31-08-2007 » |
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Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum, Peres)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: that's one of my favourite CDs of all time. The only thing I don't like about it is the way the "missing" bits of Ockeghem are filled out by some fairly run-of-the-mill music by (the otherwise unknown to me) Antonius Divitis. Another Ockeghem mass would have been a far better idea. Do you know the recording of Ockeghem's Missa Mi-Mi by Cappella Pratensis? It's very nearly as good, in a similar kind of way. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1131 on: 13:39:21, 31-08-2007 » |
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Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum, Peres)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: that's one of my favourite CDs of all time. And now available at budget price, for anyone who hasn't already got it: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//HMA1951441.htm |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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ahinton
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« Reply #1132 on: 13:41:52, 31-08-2007 » |
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The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
And does simple repetition make things into hall-fillers? Does the history of reception of contemporary atonal music demonstrate that? Not necessarily in and of itself, one may suppose - but without seeking to speak for Richard (who is, of course, perfectly well able to do that for himself!), I imagine that he had in mind the fact that one certainly doesn't turn hall-emptiers into hall-fillers by ignoring them and not performing them at all. Best, Alistair |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #1133 on: 13:46:05, 31-08-2007 » |
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The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
And does simple repetition make things into hall-fillers? Does the history of reception of contemporary atonal music demonstrate that? Not necessarily in and of itself, one may suppose - but without seeking to speak for Richard (who is, of course, perfectly well able to do that for himself!), I imagine that he had in mind the fact that one certainly doesn't turn hall-emptiers into hall-fillers by ignoring them and not performing them at all. Indeed. He was also citing a quite specific case (Boulez in New York), on which there are presumably figures. Does anyone have those figures? |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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ahinton
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« Reply #1134 on: 13:53:06, 31-08-2007 » |
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The thing with the hall-emptiers is you have to keep doing them, like Boulez did in NY (IIRC), until they start being fillers. Abbado's recording of Nono's Como una ola de fuerza y luz, with Pollini as soloist, is a searing experience, one of the most powerfully expressive recordings I know (of anything) - imagine what his (fill in name of late 20th century composer whose work would deserve such treatment) would have been like...
And does simple repetition make things into hall-fillers? Does the history of reception of contemporary atonal music demonstrate that? Not necessarily in and of itself, one may suppose - but without seeking to speak for Richard (who is, of course, perfectly well able to do that for himself!), I imagine that he had in mind the fact that one certainly doesn't turn hall-emptiers into hall-fillers by ignoring them and not performing them at all. Indeed. He was also citing a quite specific case (Boulez in New York), on which there are presumably figures. Does anyone have those figures? I don't, but again, whilst not seeking to speak for Richard, it occurs to me that his citing of that "quite specific case" of Boulez might apply equally to the same conductor's time at BBCSO's helm, to the extent that this orchestra had never previously absorbed so many contemporary scores so thoroughly and it is surely fair to suggest that this aspect of Boulez's legacy has remained an integral aspect of that orchestra (I'm not thereby suggsting that ONLY Boulez had this effect on them, but I do think that his was the most potent of any conductor in this regard). Best, Alistair |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1135 on: 14:04:55, 31-08-2007 » |
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Anyway, Boulez aside, we can surely agree that
(a) the audience for a piece of music which isn't played is zero, and
(b) Stravinsky's Agon deserves more performances than it gets.
Now spinning: nothing. I have to write some music. Later, dudes and dudettes -
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Biroc
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« Reply #1136 on: 14:13:06, 31-08-2007 » |
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Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum, Peres)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: that's one of my favourite CDs of all time. The only thing I don't like about it is the way the "missing" bits of Ockeghem are filled out by some fairly run-of-the-mill music by (the otherwise unknown to me) Antonius Divitis. Another Ockeghem mass would have been a far better idea. Do you know the recording of Ockeghem's Missa Mi-Mi by Cappella Pratensis? It's very nearly as good, in a similar kind of way. Ooh, no - I'll keep an eye out for it! I agree about the "filler" on the Requiem CD...but it is still some stunning singing!! |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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ahinton
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« Reply #1137 on: 14:16:13, 31-08-2007 » |
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Stravinsky's Agon deserves more performances than it gets.
Well, maybe that's so, although I have to confess that it doesn't especially rivet my attention, superficially attractive though it can be in the best hands. Now spinning: nothing. I have to write some music.
I sense a contradiction in terms there; does your head not spin when concentrating on doing that? (no need to - or indeed likelihood that you will - answer that before you take a break from working on your current score...) Best, Alistair |
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TimR-J
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« Reply #1138 on: 17:35:26, 31-08-2007 » |
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Indeed. He was also citing a quite specific case (Boulez in New York), on which there are presumably figures. Does anyone have those figures?
I don't have figures, but I was recently speaking to someone in NYC and got the impression that the annual performance of Le marteau at the Lincoln Centre (IIRC) has become something of a joke - a token gesture that through repetition everyone has come to dislike, even those basically in favour of new music. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1139 on: 17:50:07, 31-08-2007 » |
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Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum, Peres)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: that's one of my favourite CDs of all time. The only thing I don't like about it is the way the "missing" bits of Ockeghem are filled out by some fairly run-of-the-mill music by (the otherwise unknown to me) Antonius Divitis. Another Ockeghem mass would have been a far better idea. But that would mean also sacrificing the chant and the readings (solos sung by Peres himself), which -- as so often on Ensemble Organum's recordings -- are almost as interesting as the 'main feature'. I've been spinning this too recently, the reissue having arrived a few days ago. True. I'd still like more Ockeghem (and not only him) presented in this kind of way though. Has anyone heard the recentish recording of his Missa Caput by the "graindelavoix" ensemble? (I know Ollie has.) I suppose it's an attempt to follow up Pérčs' ideas but it actually sounds more like a small but enthusiastic football crowd. (The same group's disc of Binchois songs is much better I think.) Cappella Pratensis have also recorded a mass by Heinrich Isaac with interpolated organ improvisations, which is very fine, an early Dufay mass, which also is, and a Josquin disc which I failed to purchase when I had a copy in my hand and which now seems to be unavailable. the annual performance of Le marteau at the Lincoln Centre (IIRC) has become something of a joke What I had in mind was something I seem to remember once reading somewhere (how's that for scholarly rigour) along the lines of when Boulez took over the NY Phil and began to influence its programming, audience figures immediately fell but after a little while rose again to their previous level. Beating people around the head with Le marteau year after year sounds like a pretty bad idea. |
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