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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #2520 on: 08:03:05, 29-03-2008 » |
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(as I've said before) the only recording of this piece I've heard that I've really taken to. I think I'd like to hear what Eschenbach does with Mahler. I've also just noticed that I seem to have a recording of Zemlinsky's opera Es war einmal which I've never listened to.
 Richard, the only Mahler I've heard from Eschenbach is the 6th from Philadelphia. I'd describe it as a muscular, powerful reading; it's on the slower side compared to Mackerras and Levi, say, but I very much enjoy listening to it, especially in such glorious sound. He opts for the original ordering of movements (Scherzo then Andante) but revised scoring (i.e. two hammer blows in the finale). I've posted a Syd-style snatch from the first movement here. I've heard a couple of Eschenbach's Philadelphia discs (I know Dan doesn't care for the sound/ balance in the Saint-Saëns Organ Symphony) and I think it's a pity that his time leading that orchestra is going to be so short ( interesting speculation on his mixed success in Philadelphia here). A comment in a review on Amazon says something like 'Eschenbach was a great conductor until he discovered he was a great conductor' and I wonder if there's any truth in this. The only time I heard him live was with the LPO (Schoenberg's Pelleas and Beethoven's Emperor with Ax) and I was greatly impressed with approach. I also have that Zemlinsky disc, which is wonderfully played (and recorded). Spinning here, discs 1 & 2 (Brandenburgs from Musica Amphion) from...  ..which arrived from Germany yesterday.  |
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #2521 on: 08:44:52, 29-03-2008 » |
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IGI, that Bach set looks very impressive. I wonder how long that will take you to get all the way through!!
2002 Euro Championships, live from the Palais des Beaux Arts, Brussels. There's some very good playing here, especially from:
Black Dyke, playing Revelation(Philip Wilby)
Concerto Grosso(Derek Bourgeois). YBS, David King.
Hymn of the Highlands(Philip Sparke). YBS, David King
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martle
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« Reply #2522 on: 08:52:18, 29-03-2008 » |
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 I now REQUEST AND REQUIRE all you theorists to say that if a student were to submit what Bach actually wrote you would not at least caution them. Sorry, but if TWO ADJACENT NOTES form parallel fifths then, er, you have parallel fifths, no? At least that's how it was when I went to school.  Jeez, Ollie. If a student were to submit anything involving notated music at all I'd probably bear-hug them to death.  But no, I always understood it to be about function, and that the sanctions against parallel 5ths and octaves were absolutely to do with their capacity to mitigate against the independence of lines/voices. In the current example the upper 'line' moves from G to F, the lower from C to Ab via a passing Bb. Fine. The anticipatory quaver F in the upper line is in this respect irrelevant, no? |
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Green. Always green.
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autoharp
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« Reply #2523 on: 08:58:30, 29-03-2008 » |
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Sorry, but if TWO ADJACENT NOTES form parallel fifths then, er, you have parallel fifths, no? At least that's how it was when I went to school. I'm with Ollie on this one. Being the cynical creature I am, my belief has always been that when writing in the style of Bach for an examination, don't write how Bach did. |
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #2524 on: 09:04:51, 29-03-2008 » |
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I always think that, or when I ws doing my music examinations, I had to abide by the so called rules!! This I always found very restrciting. I had to always discipline myself no to go too awry!! Had to wait till much later, unfortunatley.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #2525 on: 10:35:27, 29-03-2008 » |
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What I never quite understood is why you can't always buck the 'rule' by slipping in a quick passing note of some sort in one line or the other to take the sting out of the evil parallel fifths or octaves. Given a good lawyer couldn't you get away with it that way? But I've probably missed the point. It was all a long time ago.
The rule of thumb I used with parallel fifths was that if it sounded like lovely Northumbrian bagpipes it probably wasn't allowed and if it didn't you might just get away with it.
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Morticia
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« Reply #2526 on: 10:38:01, 29-03-2008 » |
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I'm having a Haydn Symphony fest this morning. A surefire way of raising the spirits! Sorry chaps, as you were. Back to parallel fifths ... |
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #2527 on: 10:48:22, 29-03-2008 » |
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The rule of thumb I used with parallel fifths was that if it sounded like lovely Northumbrian bagpipes it probably wasn't allowed and if it didn't you might just get away with it.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #2528 on: 10:53:04, 29-03-2008 » |
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I now REQUEST AND REQUIRE all you theorists to say that if a student were to submit what Bach actually wrote you would not at least caution them. Sorry, but if TWO ADJACENT NOTES form parallel fifths then, er, you have parallel fifths, no? At least that's how it was when I went to school. Jeez, Ollie. If a student were to submit anything involving notated music at all I'd probably bear-hug them to death. But no, I always understood it to be about function, and that the sanctions against parallel 5ths and octaves were absolutely to do with their capacity to mitigate against the independence of lines/voices. In the current example the upper 'line' moves from G to F, the lower from C to Ab via a passing Bb. Fine. The anticipatory quaver F in the upper line is in this respect irrelevant, no? I think this is how I learned it, too. But I probably wasn't paying very much attention - my primary memory of theory/harmony/analysis is being confused. For example, I never understood why parallel fifths were taboo yet parallel fourths were fine - they're just parallel fifths inverted, so why is one OK and the other not? I still don't know. (Perhaps this ought to be on a cringeworthy admissions of ignorance thread? Or is that on the other board...?) |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #2529 on: 11:48:20, 29-03-2008 » |
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Thanks IGI for the info on Eschenbach's Mahler 6, though that's probably the Mahler symphony I listen to least often. I shall certainly give that a go some time. I would love to hear CE in the 7th (which is probably the one I listen to most often).
On the subject of parallel fifths, a non-theorist (and by some accounts non-musician) writes:
in my brief but enjoyable brush with harmony and counterpoint I committed far worse solecisms than the one under discussion, but my (mostly autodidactically-derived) understanding of the situation is exactly as Martle's, that is to say it's a question of function and specifically with the matter he describes so succinctly. It's the kind of situation every composer is concerned with in one way or another and lies behind for example the "avoidance" of melodic or harmonic octaves in twelve-tone music, the "avoidance" of any rhythmical coincidences apart from structurally-significant ones which I often find myself dealing with, and so on. I put the "avoidance" in inverted commas because these strategies are of course actually directed towards doing something rather than not doing something else. So while JSB's example is in a bureaucratic sense a parallel fifth, in a functional/aural sense it isn't.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #2530 on: 11:51:59, 29-03-2008 » |
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Certainly from what I remember of my harmony lessons (which weren't terribly advanced and a long time ago), those parallels would be marked as kitten-killing by any marker of pastiche irrespective of function. That's not to say that Bach would have considered them as such of course! Anyone got Fux to hand?
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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increpatio
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« Reply #2531 on: 13:30:31, 29-03-2008 » |
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Remember children: every time you kill a kitten, a music student somewhere writes parallel fifths.
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John W
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« Reply #2532 on: 19:59:23, 29-03-2008 » |
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La fille mal gardée - excerpts
Hérold, arr. Lanchberry
Pleasant listening.
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« Last Edit: 23:07:39, 29-03-2008 by John W »
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #2533 on: 21:38:43, 29-03-2008 » |
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Isnt that the Decca recording, John W?
Now listening to Cyril Scott Cello Concerto(Paul Watkins, cello); Symphony no.1/BBCPO, Martyn Brabbins. A very fine composer, as I thought he would be. I took a chance but from what Ive read about him, he seemed to appeal very much to me. I dont know wether its my penchant for 20th Century british music, but his style attracted me to him, very much.
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John W
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« Reply #2534 on: 23:17:50, 29-03-2008 » |
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Isnt that the Decca recording, John W?
Yes indeed bbm, vinyl Decca SXL2313, another in the never-ending unlistened vinyl vault that I've accumulated since January, I was enjoying the music but the Earth Hour intervened and I was switching stuff off  so not heard the second side of the LP. My missus had the washing machine on the whole time Her and my daughter had had a big lunch out, so just after eight I walked to the supermarket and bought myself a meal-for-one and a dessert, with today's date £1 each Then spooked ourselves out watching the Sandra Bullock movie 'Premonition' and scarier right after that we were both out so I could pick my son's car up from the pub, in which I ended up following my wife home, so I'm really spooked out now - you'll know why if you've seen the film  Just heard Benedetti playing Szymaniowski (ClassicFM) which hasn't calmed me down, but there's some gentle Rodrigo coming on (not gentilhomme ) |
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