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Author Topic: The Smoking Room  (Read 3423 times)
Morticia
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« Reply #45 on: 15:40:09, 16-05-2007 »

Oi!!  I saw that!  Grin Grin
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #46 on: 15:45:29, 16-05-2007 »

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Morticia
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« Reply #47 on: 16:04:49, 16-05-2007 »

They`ll probably ban this chap next. Highly subversive image for children. Sigh.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #48 on: 10:06:24, 17-05-2007 »

When it's smoking outside of buildings, what's released pales into insignificance compared to exhaust fumes from cars. Should we not have some laws to try and cut down on those (which also do far more environmental damage)?
Well, we do, don't we? Catalytic converters and all that. Long way to go though.

There's a certain symmetry between smoking and driving, isn't there? In both cases it would be great if people did less of them but a shame to have to pass laws to make it happen. Both are regarded as the rule by people who do them but it would be rather lovely for those who don't (and for those who do, even if they don't quite realise it) if they could be treated as the exception. Both have a certain kind of rhetoric employed to defend them (from the likes of Hitchens or Clarkson at least) along the lines of 'why shouldn't I enjoy [my cigarette/driving at 100 mph] if I want to' to which the obvious reply from those who don't quite go for the side-effects is 'go ahead but don't do it anywhere near me'. And, er, both kill about a million people a year worldwide. At least I remember reading something of the sort although I don't have the facts to hand - seems about the right order of magnitude though.

Er, yes, sorry, I've stumbled into the wrong room again. As you were.  Wink
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #49 on: 11:25:34, 17-05-2007 »

I am perplexed and confused with all the debates about smoking and driving . Being perplexed  is a normal thing for me and I am used to it.
I don't know which way to go: on one hand .., on the other hand...
Some people say ..., some  other say differently.
Recently I met people that tell me that the effect of people's activity on the environment is exaggerated. The earth always had cycles. There were "global warmings" before and may be not even once. And there were cold periods too.
I don't know if people heard this kind of arguments. They can go on like: even if we use different fuel or a combination it will not change things too much.
I wish people would agree on something and it would make life easier for perplexed people like myself.

I am definately in a wrong room now and don't know what kind of smoke or smog I am talking about. While I was in California there was a lot of talk about smog (a combination of fog and polution).

I know nothing about the other type of smoke, but now after reading ollie's post I know that cars and humans have something in common.
« Last Edit: 11:27:34, 17-05-2007 by trained-pianist » Logged
Ian Pace
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« Reply #50 on: 11:26:54, 17-05-2007 »

There's a certain symmetry between smoking and driving, isn't there? In both cases it would be great if people did less of them but a shame to have to pass laws to make it happen. Both are regarded as the rule by people who do them but it would be rather lovely for those who don't (and for those who do, even if they don't quite realise it) if they could be treated as the exception. Both have a certain kind of rhetoric employed to defend them (from the likes of Hitchens or Clarkson at least) along the lines of 'why shouldn't I enjoy [my cigarette/driving at 100 mph] if I want to' to which the obvious reply from those who don't quite go for the side-effects is 'go ahead but don't do it anywhere near me'. And, er, both kill about a million people a year worldwide. At least I remember reading something of the sort although I don't have the facts to hand - seems about the right order of magnitude though.

Well, I would imagine the majority of those killed by smoking are those who themselves smoke, whereas responsibility in terms of which drivers (or pedestrians) are killed is rather more intricately distributed. I'm guessing, of course, but would imagine so. Also, that probably doesn't take into account the effects of exhaust fumes, which could potentially have a much more cataclysmic effect (in terms of the environment). I've never heard anyone suggest that smoking produces anything remotely like the amount of greenhouse gases that cars do.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
time_is_now
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« Reply #51 on: 11:46:55, 17-05-2007 »

Well, I would imagine the majority of those killed by smoking are those who themselves smoke, whereas responsibility in terms of which drivers (or pedestrians) are killed is rather more intricately distributed. I'm guessing, of course, but would imagine so. Also, that probably doesn't take into account the effects of exhaust fumes, which could potentially have a much more cataclysmic effect (in terms of the environment). I've never heard anyone suggest that smoking produces anything remotely like the amount of greenhouse gases that cars do.

Sure, but people don't (on the whole) make the decision whether to be a smoker or not based on such considerations. Do they?

(Not that I'm suggesting they should. I just find it interesting that smoking, like running a car, is often talked about in terms of its associated dangers but those are rarely a priori considerations for those who do it.)
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #52 on: 12:19:44, 17-05-2007 »

(Not that I'm suggesting they should. I just find it interesting that smoking, like running a car, is often talked about in terms of its associated dangers but those are rarely a priori considerations for those who do it.)
To extend this idea a little, no smoker is smoking because he thinks it's healthy for him, so you're not going to make him stop by repeatedly explaining that it isn't healthy. You need to look at the real reason why he's smoking and spend your advertising budget on reversing *that* perception.

So it would appear obvious that government health warnings about cigarettes are at best inefficient and at worst a complete waste of money that really should be spent elsewhere.


Ah, but governments don't really want people to stop smoking, do they? They just want us to think they're doing something. So maybe their efforts are better thought-out than I'm giving them credit for... (Cynical, moi?  Wink )


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Allegro, ma non tanto
Tony Watson
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« Reply #53 on: 23:33:03, 17-05-2007 »

I'm afraid I can't agree with you, IRF. Fewer people smoke now than in the 1950s and before and it has to be because of more awareness of health matters. Smokers generally start young, when they think they are indestructible and that life will go on for ever. Once that feeling goes as they grow older, they will be more susceptible to taking notice of the facts.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #54 on: 16:55:38, 18-05-2007 »

Indeed I forgot to suggest the other link between smoking and cars: our elected representatives like to take postures against them while raking in the resulting tax revenues... ('Oh, they're punitive, you know.')

Passive smoking injures and kills as well of course. The children I see in smoky cafés don't have any say in the matter. Neither do the employees if they want to keep their jobs. I would also suggest that current perceptions of the matter sometimes make it socially unacceptable to avoid other people's smoke - when you lit up in the restaurant last night, Ian, how would you have reacted if I'd left? Wink
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #55 on: 22:24:07, 18-05-2007 »

Passive smoking injures and kills as well of course.

Of course, but exhaust fumes have a much bigger effect (I'm not really trying to make a case against the smoking ban, by the way, just asking why a big issue isn't made of cars as well to anything like the same degree).

Quote
The children I see in smoky cafés don't have any say in the matter. Neither do the employees if they want to keep their jobs. I would also suggest that current perceptions of the matter sometimes make it socially unacceptable to avoid other people's smoke - when you lit up in the restaurant last night, Ian, how would you have reacted if I'd left? Wink

Well, in your case I would have expected you to have asked that we do not sit in a smoking section or not wanted to be around smoke before I'd lit up Wink I do actually have a good friend who is totally allergic to cigarette smoke, can't be around it at all - that's fine, I go outside when I want one when I see her.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
oliver sudden
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« Reply #56 on: 00:57:55, 20-05-2007 »

Well, in your case I would have expected you to have asked that we do not sit in a smoking section or not wanted to be around smoke before I'd lit up Wink

Exactly my point: putting the onus on the non-smoker...
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #57 on: 22:43:09, 20-05-2007 »

Well, in your case I would have expected you to have asked that we do not sit in a smoking section or not wanted to be around smoke before I'd lit up Wink

Exactly my point: putting the onus on the non-smoker...

Actually, when going into a public place, I usually ask whoever's with me if it's ok to sit in the smoking section or not. When the whole of a place is smoking, though, that becomes a pretty redundant question Wink
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #58 on: 14:36:53, 28-06-2007 »

Ian (who is going to make a real effort to quit in July)
Good for you and good luck with it!

I have never smoked but my oldest brother and younger sister both do and did (respectively).
My brother characterises his habit as among the biggest day to day strains on his marriage (not as big as the strain caused by the hours that he works - which is why he says he goes back to smoking) and my sister found she just couldn't afford to bring up three children and carry on smoking (brother-in-law hasn't quite caught up to that one yet). My brother says that starting smoking is the one thing in his life that he regrets and, in the dark nights of his soul, he blames himself for my asthma (complete rubbish - I was showing symptoms long before he started smoking - but incidentally I am now officially not an asthmatic! Hurrah!)

Having said all of this, the period of my life where I seemed to principally live in a pub inhaling second-hand smoke was possibly one of the most enjoyable, if not all rather hazy now. I have to wash my clothes when I come back from the pub now, so I won't be sorry when the ban comes into force. I'm rather hoping that my brother will quit too.
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eruanto
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« Reply #59 on: 16:54:31, 28-06-2007 »

So-called "non-smoking sections" are completely redundant. After all, there's nothing stopping the filthy entrails traversing the currents between one section and the other, is there?

I'm really put off the meeting tomorrow... Angry

don't worry, i'm going to the designated grump and dump...



ooo dear, what an un-hygienic post.
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