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Author Topic: The Accents Thread  (Read 3446 times)
harmonyharmony
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« on: 11:40:03, 29-11-2007 »

After a month in Edinburgh, I'm having trouble distinguishing the local accent from geordie.
Is there something wrong with my ears or with my brain?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 12:01:47, 29-11-2007 »

Both are based on Saxon tongues heavy influenced by Norse, hh, but I'm worried for both your ears and brain if you are unable to detect that a major difference between them lies in pitch: Edinburgh doesn't in general possess the rising inflexions inherent in Geordie.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #2 on: 12:19:29, 29-11-2007 »

I'm suspecting that it's all about recognising the accent as 'normal'. While I was living in Durham, the Newcastle accent was the dominant accent (I do know that the Durham accent is different, but I've found that it only survives (generally speaking) in my parent's generation. In my own and in the successive generation, the Newcastle accent gets stronger to the point that the distinctive Durham accent has almost disappeared) and therefore registered as 'normal', but I think that I'm adapting to the local accent now.
Is that plausible?
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 18:24:37, 29-11-2007 »

Several people in the last 3 or 4 years have thought, based on my accent, that I was Scottish ('an Edinburgh public schoolboy', as one woman who I work with put it ... and she's from Aberdeen!).

Apparently I sound more like a Scot who's lost his accent than an Oldhamer who's lost his accent.

But my best friend at university was an Edinburgh ex-choirboy, and I guess he may well have had a fairly big influence on me just at the time when I'd first moved away from home and was losing my Lancashire accent (though it was never all that strong in the first place).
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #4 on: 18:35:15, 29-11-2007 »

I rather pride myself on being able to tell where anyone comes from, if they have a bit of a local accent, but I was defeated by one recently. It turned out to be near Peterborough.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #5 on: 18:40:12, 29-11-2007 »

I rather pride myself on being able to tell where anyone comes from, if they have a bit of a local accent, but I was defeated by one recently. It turned out to be near Peterborough.
Um, I think I know that one...
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
martle
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« Reply #6 on: 18:59:55, 29-11-2007 »


Apparently I sound more like a Scot who's lost his accent than an Oldhamer who's lost his accent.


Tinners, I can assure you (and I hope this is good news) that you still have a perfectly recognisable Lancashire accent, to me - with a soft urban edge too, a bit like, er, say, Howard Jacobson's. Or, from what I can remember of it, that of your home town buddy, Sir William Walton.
« Last Edit: 19:03:01, 29-11-2007 by martle » Logged

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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #7 on: 09:37:17, 30-11-2007 »

Most people are under the misapprehension that I speak RP.  My accent is certainly fairly close to it, but not quite.  Only one person - an old acquaintance from university, with whom I've now lost touch -has ever spontaneously detected any "northernness" in my accent (and it wasn't even one of the people I studied phonetics with).

As far as I'm aware, there's only one vowel in my speech which betrays the fact that I am not originally a southerner, and that is the first vowel of the word "southerner".

My mum spent her formative years in Bedfordshire and Berkshire, and most of her adult life oop north. One contributory factor she cites for her recent move back to Berks is the fact that after thirty years in Durham, strangers still said "You're not from round here, are you?" (even though she now has a lot more of the North in her accent than I have).

I love the fact that in London people rarely take any notice of each other's accents.
« Last Edit: 15:09:08, 30-11-2007 by Ruth Elleson » Logged

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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #8 on: 10:30:40, 30-11-2007 »



My mum spent her formative years in Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, and most of her adult life oop north. One contributory factor she for her recent move back to Berks is the fact that after thirty years in Durham, strangers still said "You're not from round here, are you?"

People say that to me too (oop north), and I am! Occasionally when I'm in London or the south someone detects that I'm a northerner - I think it's more the intonation or "tune" than the vowels. I always find it vaguely funny that a lot of southerners don't realise that they have an accent as well. I also find it interesting that some people immediately pick up the accent of wherever they happen to be living, and some people forever speak with the accent of their childhood. Some children imitate their parents, some imitate their friends. I've never been able to work out whether this is something to do with their ear for nuances in language or their social attitudes.

Not quite sure what this is doing in the Grumpy Room, but I'm fascinated by language so couldn't help responding.

In London, the one thing that I rarely hear is a London accent. It's such a melting pot that anything is "normal".
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #9 on: 10:40:20, 30-11-2007 »

I always find it vaguely funny that a lot of southerners don't realise that they have an accent as well.

Sussex has quite a distinctive, rather guttural accent, but you normally only hear older people using it - certainly here in Brighton, which is a city of incomers.

My father, who hails from Chester-le-Street, has only the slightest trace of a Durham accent.  What often gives him away as a non-Southerner is the occasional turn of phrase, a way of using words that doesn't quite fit in with the North London vernacular!
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MabelJane
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« Reply #10 on: 10:58:31, 30-11-2007 »

I wonder if a kindly Mod could transfer these posts on accent into a more aptly titled thread?

I also find it interesting that some people immediately pick up the accent of wherever they happen to be living, and some people forever speak with the accent of their childhood. Some children imitate their parents, some imitate their friends. I've never been able to work out whether this is something to do with their ear for nuances in language or their social attitudes.
Fascinating isn't it, Mary.

I was brought up in SW London but moved up to the south of Manchester over 20 years ago. I've been slow to lose my old accent but over the years I've begun to sound a bit Northern to Southerners. Just recently I've caught myself pronouncing the 'g' in the middle and end of 'singing'... Shocked

Teaching as I do in a pocket of Stockport where the local accent is very strong, I'm aware that my accent is far more Northern when I'm teaching than when I'm not, so I seem to subconsciously switch it on and off. At least that means I don't worry as much as I used to about them not understanding which letter I'm sounding in the phonics- though their previous teacher was Australian and that didn't seem to bother her at all! 
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Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
Andy D
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« Reply #11 on: 11:10:00, 30-11-2007 »

though their previous teacher was Australian and that didn't seem to bother her at all! 

As a suvvener (Sarf Essex) living in Brum I have on more than one occasion been asked if I'm an Australian! Cheesy

My brother has lived here for even longer than me and neither of us has picked up much of the local accents (Brum or Black Country, which are still quite distinct) whereas other people seem to acquire new accents quite quickly. It always makes me laugh when people ask: You're not from round here are you?
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #12 on: 11:13:16, 30-11-2007 »

The other way you can tell I'm a northerner is the way I pronounce "Newcastle" Wink
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
Ron Dough
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« Reply #13 on: 11:18:19, 30-11-2007 »


In London, the one thing that I rarely hear is a London accent. It's such a melting pot that anything is "normal".

There isn't 'a' London accent anyway, as I'm sure Mary knows: the 'Cockney' accent is the clichéd one which everyone recognises and attempts to copy, but Sarf Lunnon, particular Sarfeast has a recognisably different tone - satirised by Monty Python's Mrs Cutout, and North and South have subtly different vowel sounds. the whole of the South East is homogenising under the capital's influence anyway: Reading had a completely separate accent - an accurate, though faded, version of it can be heard in David Brent from The Office: it sounds half-way between London and Wlitshire, which is exactly what to expect, given its location. But you only really hear it now in older folk: most Reading teenagers sound as if they're two-thirds of the way closer to London than they did when I was that age.

There was an interesting remark made by someone in education in Cornwall that once 'Grange Hill' appeared on TV, children's Cornish sounds were audibly modified very quickly: the increasingly common rirsng inflection at the end of non-interrogative statements has been traced back to the arrival of Australian Soap operas. Accents have always been aspirational - classic drama is full of characters who attempt the tones of those higher up the social scale - but since the fifties, the imitation has moved downwards rather than up. Once the kitchen-sink era of drama had arrived, actors with suave cut-glass tones were ghettoised overnight, and the ripple from that have spread outwards through society to the point where media figures often find it advantageous to rough their accents up. Nigel Kennedy is a wonderful example of this: clips of him as a ten year old reveal an SRP accent: that's not how he sounds now. The Royal Family has made conscious efforts this way too: Andrew sounds quite different to his older brother Charles, and William and Harry have lost even more of the mouth-plums. Blair's accent mutated to mtach his surroundings, though not always convincingly....   
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Andy D
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« Reply #14 on: 11:18:42, 30-11-2007 »

Teaching as I do in a pocket of Stockport where the local accent is very strong, I'm aware that my accent is far more Northern when I'm teaching than when I'm not, so I seem to subconsciously switch it on and off.

Do you use graph or grarph paper in school MJ? (or neither? Wink). I think I probably use "graph" but I have to think about it. And it seems just plain contrary to say Newcarstle, but I might do sometimes.
« Last Edit: 11:25:34, 30-11-2007 by Andy D » Logged
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