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Author Topic: The Accents Thread  (Read 3446 times)
Andy D
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« Reply #15 on: 11:27:26, 30-11-2007 »

There isn't 'a' London accent anyway

Again, that is probably less true than it was. I used to be able to tell whether someone came from North or South of the Thames ie Essex London or Kent London but I doubt whether that would be easy now.
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MabelJane
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« Reply #16 on: 11:32:19, 30-11-2007 »

I wonder if a kindly Mod could transfer these posts on accent into a more aptly titled thread?

Teaching as I do in a pocket of Stockport where the local accent is very strong, I'm aware that my accent is far more Northern when I'm teaching than when I'm not, so I seem to subconsciously switch it on and off.

Do you use graph or grarph paper in school MJ? (or neither? Wink). I think I probably use "graph" but I have to think about it. And it seems just plain contrary to say Newcarstle, but I might do sometimes.
Grin You're not usually caught out by the /quote thingy, Andy!
Hmm...graph/grarph I think I've been saying grarph as none of the children already knew the word! Yes, we've been doing a Favourite Potatoes graph on the Smartboard - and you may be surprised to learn that chips weren't the favourite in this cla(r!)ss of 6-8 year olds - jacket potatoes tied in first place with roast.
Ooer I seem to be trapped in the box too - even though the [ /quote] seems to be in the right place...HELP!!!

PS Thanks to Ron (I presume) for moving this thread. Kiss

Managed to escape!!!
« Last Edit: 11:35:52, 30-11-2007 by MabelJane » Logged

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Andy D
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« Reply #17 on: 11:40:23, 30-11-2007 »

Grin You're not usually caught out by the /quote thingy, Andy!

It probably got reassembled incorrectly when it was beamed through hyperspace in the post transporter!  Cheesy
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #18 on: 11:43:35, 30-11-2007 »

Again, it depends on their age, Andy: accents started to change must faster when radio and TV channels turned national. Another aspect of accents changing at specific times can be heard in the adoption of ethnic vowel-sounds and constructions into a 'youf patois'.

When I sit on a bus or a train here, I can often estimate the age of someone I can hear, but not see, by their accents; over the past fifteen years or so, there's been a tendency for younger people to adopt the softer West coast and Highlands Gaelic-based 'r' sound as opposed to the more common heavy tongue-trilled roll which people associate with the Scottish sound: if I hear that sound with an East coast accent, then the chances are that the speaker's around thirty or under.

(I admit it. It was I who established the new thread.)
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Andy D
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« Reply #19 on: 11:52:40, 30-11-2007 »

Yes, we've been doing a Favourite Potatoes graph on the Smartboard - and you may be surprised to learn that chips weren't the favourite in this cla(r!)ss of 6-8 year olds - jacket potatoes tied in first place with roast.

But are those jacket potatoes done in an environmentally sound way in the microwave or baked for several days in the oven? Grin
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #20 on: 11:54:43, 30-11-2007 »

What a lot of interesting posts, though the one that apparently claims I teach in Stockport is a bit misleading!

I've often wondered how reading is taught if you don't admit to a "standard" pronunciation. What if there is a big variation in the way the children pronounce words? Children are pretty adaptable, I suppose. Same goes for singing, of course, only with singing it's much more important. If there's to be a good standard in a choir the children must all use the same vowels. I have already (quite often, I suspect!) quoted the story of my music teacher friend who teaches in a private junior school whre she is not allowed to correct the children's speech, but she absolutely insisted that she must do so for singing. (I'm fully aware that my use of the word "correct" with reference to speech will raise some hackles  Smiley)

I know I get Newcastle wrong - I pronounce it "NEWcarstle" - not pronouncing the R, of course. However, I get "BirkenHEAD" right, since I lived not too far from it, and am irrationally annoyed by those who say "BIRkenhead" - not that it's often in the news.
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #21 on: 11:57:14, 30-11-2007 »

I'm suspecting that it's all about recognising the accent as 'normal'. While I was living in Durham, the Newcastle accent was the dominant accent (I do know that the Durham accent is different, but I've found that it only survives (generally speaking) in my parent's generation. In my own and in the successive generation, the Newcastle accent gets stronger to the point that the distinctive Durham accent has almost disappeared) and therefore registered as 'normal', but I think that I'm adapting to the local accent now.
Is that plausible?

It matches my experience. I've lived in the North East for years now and to me Geordie sounds normal (though oddly I don't seem to have absorbed any of it myself  Undecided ). When I go home to visit family in the West Midlands, everybody sounds foreign to me. It's quite a relief to step off the train in Newcastle and hear normal speech again  Cheesy

I can't remember any specific point when I noticed the people in Newcastle sounded like they were speaking "my" accent, but that's what must have happened on some subconscious level.

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MabelJane
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« Reply #22 on: 12:01:40, 30-11-2007 »

What a lot of interesting posts, though the one that apparently claims I teach in Stockport is a bit misleading!
Sorry Mary, the quote thingys got all muddled up! Too complicated for me to untangle now. I see that Andy's managed to escape from his box which makes a nonsense of my post which followed his! Roll Eyes
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #23 on: 12:25:16, 30-11-2007 »



My mum spent her formative years in Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, and most of her adult life oop north. One contributory factor she for her recent move back to Berks is the fact that after thirty years in Durham, strangers still said "You're not from round here, are you?"

People say that to me too (oop north), and I am!

Sorry, I should have added to that story.  Mum's now been living in roughly the vicinity in which she spent her later childhood (the Bracknell/Wokingham/Reading area) for six months, and despite the fact that her accent is now somewhat on the hybrid side, she hasn't yet had anybody pass comment on it - unlike in Durham where it was regularly mentioned.

The other thing I found about my accent when growing up in Durham was that "anything southern" accent-wise was seen as "posh".  Mum was baffled by this particularly - she's less RP than I am, and certainly doesn't talk posh, but this is how she was judged by people in general.
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Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
Ron Dough
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« Reply #24 on: 12:30:59, 30-11-2007 »

Stresses in place names seem to be regional: in the South it's pretty much first syllable throughout - Lond'n, Bournem'th, Winchester (but Southampton). Up here, it's mostly the opposite; Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness, or at least another syllable C'rnoustie  K'rkoddie (spelt Kirkcaldy) though there are some biggies that break that rule; Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling. We say Carlisle, too, because of its Celtic roots. I also hear Blackpool and Bournemouth (last syllable rhymes with 'south') more often than not.

We also get 'day' rather than 'dy', and with more of an equal stress. Earlier this week in a shop I heard 'Weddensday in quick succession from three separate people age ranges from pre-teens to pensioner, and not related.
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Morticia
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« Reply #25 on: 13:04:37, 30-11-2007 »

" I also find it interesting that some people immediately pick up the accent of wherever they happen to be living".

I have a tendency to veer off into the accent of the person/persons that I am speaking with. Many moons ago I worked and shared a flat with girls from Oop North. By the time I moved out my original accent (I`m a Southern girl) had all but vanished!  Even now, if I get a tad overexcited about something I find myself sliding into `North speak`

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Baz
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« Reply #26 on: 13:37:26, 30-11-2007 »

After a month in Edinburgh, I'm having trouble distinguishing the local accent from geordie.
Is there something wrong with my ears or with my brain?

Reminds me of a strange but extremely educative experience!

Having hardly ever been able to understand why a Scottish accent sounds as though the person uttering it is speaking a completely unintelligible language (sorry all you Scots - no disrespect intended!), I had imagined that the original purpose of Hadrian's Wall was to draw a 'line in the sand' between those who spoke English that we understand, and those who don't. But I was wrong....

When I drove up from London to Edinburgh for a New Year 'do', I found myself wondering how two so very different tongues could possibly have been separated merely by a stone wall. To my total surprise, when I stopped at Berwick-upon-Tweed for a meal, I DISCOVERED a place where the two seem to be completely united into one! They speak with both a 'northern English' and a 'southern Scottish' accent, both beautifully melded into a single linguistic experience.

So...when I looked north I felt "Oop the Scots and doon the English" - but when I faced south it became "Doon the Scots and oop the English".

I just wanted to share that lovely experience with you all. (Ahem! - tomorrow is cancelled!)

Baz
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #27 on: 14:34:12, 30-11-2007 »


 I had imagined that the original purpose of Hadrian's Wall was to draw a 'line in the sand' between those who spoke English that we understand, and those who don't. But I was wrong....

Baz

Well, Baz, bearing in mind that English as a language we'd recognise didn't exist at all in Hadrian's time, that can't be it at all, and you are right to say that you were wrong. If you bear in mind that Caesar considered Britain as part of Gaul, and that the very name 'Gaul' is cognate with Gaelic, then the chances are that at that point there were no separate tongues, or that if there were, they represented the two branches of the Celtic language: the 'P' or Brythonic line, which includes Welsh, Cornish and Breton, and the 'Q' or Goedelic strand - Irish and Scots Gaelic. To confuse matters still further, what we think of as Welsh was spoken much in of Scotland not only in Hadrian's time, but centuries after.

You're also right to point out that they're not two different tongues: you're looking at two points of a rainbow of shades that blend imperceptibly. The whole of the east coast from East Anglia upwards has sounds and words which are influenced by the Scandinavian raiders we know as Vikings, and whose heavy reliance on dipthongs can be heard still in vowel sounds from the Midlands through Lincolnshire and Yorkshire up through Geordieland to Berwick and beyond: the Gaelic influence doesn't really kick-in until you reach a good deal further west and north. The 'sounding completely different' is a result of the very different sounds that have been inherent in each particular locale for centuries, further influenced by geographical conditions.

Until the recent explosion in mass communication and travel, most regions of the UK, let alone the smaller communities within them, were much more inward-looking. People moved around far less, and language developed along its own lines in each closed area, forming a succession of centres where the language was recognisably different from those adjacent, but nonetheless had flavours of its neighbours . This is evening out more and more, but your choice of Berwick displays a phenomenon really already discussed here, which is that whichever point on the rainbow you decide to examine, it will always represent a transition between one recognisable colour and another.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #28 on: 15:02:13, 30-11-2007 »

Apparently when I try to get a couple of words out in Danish it comes out in a Norwegian accent. I wonder why? I don't speak either... (Actually I know why - Norwegian is more singsongy and I can't manage Danish flatness.)

Frenchpersons are also divided as to what my accent might be when speaking their lovely tongue... some say it's English, some say it's German. I was very pleased to be a told by a colleague the other day that he found my German ziemlich akzentfrei.

On the other hand the Australianness or otherwise of my accent in English depends rather on who I'm talking to. As does Ron's Scots accent, I suspect. Certainly last time I heard his voice no trace of Scotsness was apparent... Wink
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #29 on: 15:14:50, 30-11-2007 »

Careful, Oz! next thing you'll be telling them that 'Big' Ron is only 5'2" tall. Wink (But I do appreciate you not mentioning that at first hearing some people take my accent for eastern European.)
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