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Author Topic: The Accents Thread  (Read 3446 times)
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #105 on: 09:33:01, 21-02-2008 »

I haven't noticed the -ah ending, but everything sounding like a question is very much in evidence. I've always thought it came from watching "Neighbours" Smiley.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #106 on: 09:45:38, 21-02-2008 »

The upwards inflexion first surfaced about twenty years ago when Australian soaps started to appear on British TV, Mills: in the UK it's always signified an interrogative in virtually every accent: only in Geordieland does the concluding upwards inflexion occur naturally, and it's a slightly different slope, so it doesn't sound so questioning. But there are Australians for whom it's a standard speech pattern, and the influence of the media on the accents of the young has been well documented in the past: in Cornwall, kids' accents were noticed to be moving towards Cockney at the time when Grange Hill was at its peak.

The 'ah/oh' replacement for a final 'er' is accepted as standard short-hand for what happens in much of the South-East for the former, and what's been developing in youf-speak when Afro-Carribean patois inflexions are adopted for the latter - the 'oh' sound's pretty prevalent in younger Sarf Lunnonahs/Lunnonohs, and has become noticeably more pronounced in urban Greater Manchester, too (where a similar 'ih' for final 'ey' or 'y' has long been standard). These things tend to spread outwards....

(Written before I'd seen Mary's posting.)
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Andy D
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« Reply #107 on: 11:14:56, 21-02-2008 »

Bostin' explan-i-tion Ron.

One of my cousins often uses the upward inflexion and she's only 6 years younger than me - perhaps she used to be a Neighbours fan! I find it extremely annoying - even more so than the local accent Wink It always sounds to me as though the speaker is asking for approval for having said what they did.
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operacat
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« Reply #108 on: 15:11:06, 17-03-2008 »

I don't think accent is identity at all - it would be quite sad to have no other identity than that, wouldn't it? - and I also don't see why you should be proud of where you come from. It's an accident, after all, not an achievement.

I'd be quite happy if everyone spoke RP. Sorry!

Ah, Ron - Welsh meaning "foreign", as in "walnut" Grin.

Totally agree with you, Mary.

Accent is the ultimate repository of class prejudice. Wage war on 'regionalism', so that everyone speaks RP and it would be one of the biggest blows against the class system that could be made.

Besides, most UK regional accents are hideously ugly and unpleasant to listen to. 

Hey, that's a matter of opinion, isn't it!

Ugly and unpleasant to listen to for whom? Where are you from? Maybe some people might find YOUR accent 'ugly and unpleasant to listen to'!! Sad
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operacat
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« Reply #109 on: 15:13:11, 17-03-2008 »

Yes, MJ, some folk are chameleons when it comes to accents. Others really want to fit in, and work at it. Others hold onto theirs with might and main. I find some accents very easy, but others tremendously hard: I don't have to think about Ulster, but a Southern Irish accent is really difficult for me; I can't get the mouth shape or vocal placing at all.
 

I'm a Londoner, but lived in Ulster for 3 years during the 1970s. I STILL sometimes use Ulster expressions (though not the accent), that no-one in London understands!!!
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« Reply #110 on: 15:15:24, 17-03-2008 »

My least favourite accents are Birmingham, Liverpool, Barnsley, anything Lancashire, Belfast, Norfolk and Glasgow (see you Jimmy!  De you want a Glasgei handshake?  Although saying that I loved Rab C. Nesbitt)

My favourites are Newcastle (makes me go weak at the knees), South Wales valleys (of course) and, Och, an educated Edinburgh burr and Russian.
I have a CD of protest songs by the folk singer Alastair Hulett - sung in almost incomprehensible Glaswegian dialect!! Why is this so much more difficult to understand than Edinburgh dialect??!!!
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time_is_now
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« Reply #111 on: 15:17:20, 17-03-2008 »

The upwards inflexion first surfaced about twenty years ago when Australian soaps started to appear on British TV, Mills: in the UK it's always signified an interrogative in virtually every accent: only in Geordieland does the concluding upwards inflexion occur naturally, and it's a slightly different slope, so it doesn't sound so questioning.
I thought I agreed with this, but I was talking to a friend I don't speak to so often the other night and I accused him of 'doing an Australian intonation', but he insisted it was a Bristolian thing (he's been living there for the past 5 years).

Maybe a young Bristolian thing, though: perhaps they just watch more Neighbours there ... Wink
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« Reply #112 on: 15:22:26, 17-03-2008 »

An embarrassing moment from my past....

I used to work in a florists shop, and we used to take orders over the phone. I think they do it by fax now - anyway, a way in which this sort of misunderstanding no longer arises.

I took an order for a bouquet to go to 'Bookingham Mansions'. The other florist didn't have the rest of the address, so I said I would put the order to one side until he could supply the full address.
Then I thought - hey, we could look it up in the Kelly's Street Directory. Couldn't find it, and then my colleague said, rather impatiently....look, it's right here on this page.
Me: but that says Buckingham......... OH I SEE!!!!!

It would never occur to a Londoner that 'Bookingham' and 'Buckingham' are in fact THE SAME WORD!!! Huh
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #113 on: 15:43:44, 17-03-2008 »


I used to work in a florists shop

"In three months I could pass that girl off as a duchess at an ambassador's garden party. I could even get her a place as lady's maid or shop assistant, which requires better English."

G B Shaw, Pygmalion

Lovely story, operacat, and I can well believe it!
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John W
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« Reply #114 on: 17:34:23, 23-05-2008 »

Bruch was once principal conductor in Liverpool, He's supposed to have hated it!

Serious question for Ron or anyone.

Was the scouse accent even stronger in Bruch's time? Or would all the musicians and toffs he met have spoken the Queen's English ?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #115 on: 18:34:56, 23-05-2008 »

Local accents were stronger for a very obvious reason, John: no telephone, radio, or talking pictures, and far less travelling. Even in my lifetime accents have smoothed out perceptibly: when I was a kid in Reading, which wasn't a particularly large town, you could still tell which part of town many people (particularly the older ones) came from just by certain words or vowel sounds: the different London accents were far more distinct. Carrying that back further, even the poshest people from most cities were unlikely to have travelled all that much, so their accents would still have had had a local colouring: just cast your ear back to Scotland; do you find Morningside and Kelvinside (the poshest accents from Edinburgh and Glasgow to those out of the know) are hard to tell apart? Most Scots can identify them immediately even now, although they're less different than they were post-war.

Musicians would no doubt mostly have been local, and would have had to have come from families rich enough to educate them, but their accents would still have been closer to the local sounds than the Queen's English.
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John W
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« Reply #116 on: 19:34:09, 23-05-2008 »

Thanks Ron, just what I thought. I was thinking the musicians would have been in a 'middle class' but likely had a very local accent possibly like footballer Jamie Carragher has today (he was born in Bootle) and wondered how Bruch would have coped with that !

When I was a student in Edinburgh I was mixing with students from everywhere and frequented pubs in Morningside. I had digs in Newington, east of the Meadows. So I guess I didn't get a chance to know the local accents but I have met a few posh Scots in my time. Having been in England for 30-odd years I am regarded as posh when I visit Scotland because all my Scots words have disappeared from my language. On an extended stay, of course, it would all come back again  Smiley
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Ruby2
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« Reply #117 on: 09:57:04, 28-05-2008 »

The upwards inflexion first surfaced about twenty years ago when Australian soaps started to appear on British TV, Mills: in the UK it's always signified an interrogative in virtually every accent: only in Geordieland does the concluding upwards inflexion occur naturally, and it's a slightly different slope, so it doesn't sound so questioning.
I thought I agreed with this, but I was talking to a friend I don't speak to so often the other night and I accused him of 'doing an Australian intonation', but he insisted it was a Bristolian thing (he's been living there for the past 5 years).

Maybe a young Bristolian thing, though: perhaps they just watch more Neighbours there ... Wink
No I think the upward inflection is spreading very fast.  It used to irritate me as well, but I spend a couple of years working in London recently and picked it up from some consultants I was working with.  It served as a sort of replacement for "Do you see what/know where I mean?"  Thankfully I think for the most part I've dropped it now, but a colleague did it earlier - it's definitely spreading.  Quick, put tin foil on the roof and buy a breathing mask.
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A
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« Reply #118 on: 11:02:32, 28-05-2008 »


I love different accents, I think it is what keeps the world interesting.
In 'our local' there is a variety of very heavy Northern, my Northern ( not quite so heavy) and 'Sarf East Larnon ' . I do find it amusing that Northern, Birmingham, Liverpool accents etc are rather laughed at when the South East London ( especially) accent is quite hilarious ( to me  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  )

A Grin  innit
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Ruby2
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« Reply #119 on: 11:22:19, 28-05-2008 »


I love different accents, I think it is what keeps the world interesting.
In 'our local' there is a variety of very heavy Northern, my Northern ( not quite so heavy) and 'Sarf East Larnon ' . I do find it amusing that Northern, Birmingham, Liverpool accents etc are rather laughed at when the South East London ( especially) accent is quite hilarious ( to me  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  )

A Grin  innit
I'm with you there. Which is lucky as I'm moving near Leeds soon! 

I must confess that I find Liverpool accents quite hard to understand sometimes, which is unfortunate because I go there quite a lot.  I dread trying to book a taxi because my end of the conversation is always punctuated with "Sorry?" between each contribution...  Embarrassed  I don't object to the accent, I'm just a bit stupid about it!
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"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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