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Author Topic: Two- to Sixty-second Repertoire Test Discussion  (Read 18090 times)
John W
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« Reply #645 on: 00:11:25, 20-02-2008 »

Dear John W,

Although very appreciative of opilec's rescue bid (and - yes - he did post the correct CD as we should have expected!), I think you could have done a little better.

With that in mind, perhaps you could identify the following 'lovely' piece? Go for it!

What_is_it_2

Baz  Grin

I really don't have time to seek out detail on these Baz  Roll Eyes

But -2 sounds like an arrangement of Gershwin's Porgy&Bess/Summertime

Since such snatches are outlawed at the Grew Test thread you are welcome to post them on the Sounds Familiar thread!


John W
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Bryn
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« Reply #646 on: 11:01:28, 20-02-2008 »

Regarding the now solved Puzzle 102, I find the disc cover shown below confusing. It states that the principal work on the disc to be the Chamber Symphony (no number is indicated). However, the Amazon UK site claims it to be the 2nd Chamber Symphony. Can anyone here advise on the matter? I have not listened to the extract offered by Amazon.

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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #647 on: 11:14:40, 20-02-2008 »

Regarding the now solved Puzzle 102, I find the disc cover shown below confusing. It states that the principal work on the disc to be the Chamber Symphony (no number is indicated). However, the Amazon UK site claims it to be the 2nd Chamber Symphony. Can anyone here advise on the matter? I have not listened to the extract offered by Amazon.

That's interesting - the excerpt in puzzle 102 is from the very start of the broadcast, and it does not sound like a largo. It seems there really are two Chamber Symphonies; but which is which? More research needed (but no time to do it to-day).
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A
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« Reply #648 on: 11:18:42, 20-02-2008 »

I am sorry, I have to say I am pleased to be out of the red on the list and now well into the green!!  Grin Grin Grin Grin

A
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Well, there you are.
richard barrett
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« Reply #649 on: 11:22:31, 20-02-2008 »

From the liner notes to Volkov's recording:
Quote
In 1926 he began composing a Chamber Symphony, but left this project (which seems to have been planned in two movements) unfinished, as a single movement in short score, lacking a coda. That highly interesting fragment was completed and orchestrated by Raskatov (for an ensemble of eighteen players), and was performed and recorded in the 1990s as ‘the Roslavets Chamber Symphony’. However, it was merely the realization of a fascinating abandoned torso.

It was not then realized that there existed a complete—and immensely larger—Chamber Symphony by Roslavets, whose manuscript has emerged subsequently. It was not published until 2005, and its first recording now appears on the present disc. Also scored for eighteen players—nine solo woodwind, two horns, trumpet, piano, string quartet and double bass—this major work, undoubtedly Roslavets’s most important symphonic utterance, was composed between May 1934 and February 1935, not long after he had returned to Moscow from Uzbekistan. It is known that he showed it to Myaskovsky (who was impressed), but he was unsuccessful in securing a performance, which was probably out of the question after the notorious Pravda denunciations of Shostakovich in January 1936.

In other words, the Hyperion recording is of the only completed Chamber Symphony by Ross LaVettes.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #650 on: 12:58:28, 20-02-2008 »

Mr Grew, may I recommend most strongly Tasmin Little's recording of the violin sonatas of Delius.. with the pianist Piers Lane. It is truly magnificent and includes the fantastic ( my favourite) posthumous sonata that I used in my clip.

It is readily available and I do hope you will buy and enjoy!!

Madame A
Madame A may be interested to know that our own version of Delius's Sonatas 1 to 3 is an LP recording made by Ralph Holmes and Eric Fenby (here depicted) in 1972.


The piano used was Delius's own, bequeathed to Fenby. Fenby makes on the back of the record a number of interesting points, of which here a sample:

"Delius wrote, in all, four sonatas for violin and piano, the earliest in 1892 and the last in 1930. The sonata of 1892, a work in three separate movements, remained in MS being rejected as derivative and immature. Thus we are left with three sonatas numbered as on this record in order of composition and publication. No.1 was begun in 1905 and put aside (as was his habit) when the music did not come naturally. It was not until World War I, however, when major projects were abandoned, that he took up the sonata again. Like No.2 it plays without a break; there are traces of influences not yet absorbed, but there is a bigness and spaciousness of design not to be found in Nos.2 and 3.

"No works by Delius have been more maligned; they are treated as oddities unworthy of notice. They belong to a time when the term sonata still aroused certain expectations of dramatic interplay of themes. These expectations are not fulfilled in Delius's conception of sonata. Pedantry is much to blame in presenting sonata form as a blue-print which is sacrosanct. Haydn and Mozart would have scoffed at this notion! Delius, approaching and withdrawing as he pleased from the periphery of this enclosure of thought, is obviously not to every taste. Whereas classical composers have sometimes replaced development of themes by bringing in completely new subject matter in movements purporting to be sonata, Delius relies almost entirely on a succession of episodes to give continuity. This, and the element of surprise in some of these lovely byways of of music make these sonatas, to my mind, unique. It has been said that 'it is one thing to make an idea clear, and another to make it affecting to the imagination.' Now there are innumerable sonatas with clear ideas, but how many are affecting to the imagination? This, I feel is where Delius excels. We may tire, perhaps, of his oneness of mood. But if we ourselves are in that mood, he never fails to project that mood in sounds so unmistakably his own that by his very genius he makes them our own. All these sonatas reveal his gift in sustaining lines of lyrical flow, more akin to prose than verse. His melodic direction is sure and firm and moves with that unconscious skill which comes when genius has found itself. There are passages of weak invention, but the cumulative effects of his paragraphs evoke a genuine musical experience of differing quality in each sonata. We hear, too, as in No.3 that he could write a good tune when he chose. The 3rd sonata is interesting in the key relationships of the movements. I remember thinking as he finished dictating the final bars of the first movement, 'Surely he has ended in the wrong key!' Not till we came to the close of the last movement did I sense the truth of his intuition, centering, diverging, then centering again on two adjacent notes — D and E! The juxtaposition of keys is less elusive in No.2 and radiates from a central C. There is even a hint of recapitulation in his harking back to the opening theme at the close of this single movement work. The slow sections, to me, are sheer magic; simple and telling in exquisite play with reiterated notes and the leap of a fourth! And they say that Delius was lacking in craftsmanship!

"Nevertheless, the lay-out and figuration of his piano parts can be exasperating to performers. I saw that his own, long, elegant fingers must have had an enormous stretch. This probably accounts for the particular problems to be faced in No.1. Tactful suggestions (prompted by the smallness of my own hand-stretch) induced him to shape more manageable arpeggios at awkward places in No.3. Delius was not a pianist — nor am I — but had been an accomplished violinist in his youth. Apart from some terrifying leaps from the depths to the highest reaches of the instrument, the writing for violin is deftly placed. Great players of the past — Sammons and Tertis — have told of their love of the purely musical qualities of these sonatas and how, on returning to them again and again, they have always found them fresh.

"It was typical of Delius that he felt it rather an insult to players to plaster his scores with dynamics or bowings; provided they played the notes he had written he preferred to leave such matters to them. There is no one way of playing his music, but I have often heard him condemn a performer as having no feeling for his phrasing. In this he must bear some blame himself for he gives little guidance to the player in making his sense of flow as clear and meaningful as he intended it. 'But, surely,' he would say, 'a really musical person must feel it my way!' Inflection is the secret of phrasing in Delius as Beecham discovered to our delight. Moving to the operative note in a phrase; a little lingering without breaking the continuity and the poetry at once begins to bloom.

"These three most singular sonatas would themselves, in my opinion, have made the reputation of a lesser composer. There is a peculiar power about them — for instance, the sweep of the opening of No.1 — which could only come from a mind that had already achieved excellence in the larger forms of composition."

He is somewhat dismissive of the early B major, but probably the real reason behind that is that it would not fit on the recording. We like his snide remark about "there is even a hint of recapitulation"! Also it seems his definition of the word "pianist" was not the rest of the world's - for was it not precisely he playing the piano so well on this recording?
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A
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« Reply #651 on: 13:23:15, 20-02-2008 »

Very interesting Mr Grew, thank you.

You may possibly like to know a story I have about Eric Fenby... When I played Legende (Delius) for my final exam at RAM I though... no-one will know this, I am on a winner here... and I walked into the room and Eric Fenby was on the board!!
I said ''Oh heck" or something similar , and when I told him I was playing Delius he said " Oh goody!!"

( I passed !!)

Madam A

edit.. Ralph Homes became a prof. at the RAM too !
« Last Edit: 13:25:04, 20-02-2008 by A » Logged

Well, there you are.
Baz
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« Reply #652 on: 13:29:54, 20-02-2008 »

Baz, Puzzle 119.  Is it John Ireland, a string quartet later rearranged for orchestra?

Not John Ireland I'm afraid.

Baz

Since nobody yet seems any nearer to identifying this composer (and his extract), let's review the known evidence so far:

a) He was born on the island that lies north of the stretch of water separating England from France, and

b) He was a pupil of Charles Villiers Stanford

Specifically, however, he was born in Yorkshire at Slaithwaite. He is really well known - but actually for a particular song that extols the freshness of certain flowers that have a connection with the land that lies south of the stretch of water dividing France from England.

Baz

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Bryn
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« Reply #653 on: 14:13:04, 20-02-2008 »

116, 118 and 120 remain to be solved.

116 is not by Milhaud, who completed the same number of works for this combination of instruments which the composer in question started. The two composers met the year before the work featured was written.

There have, to my knowledge, been 3 recordings of the work featured in Puzzle 118. Each used a different edition of the score. The editions used for the two most recent recordings were prepared by the pianists concerned, respectively.

The brief extracts presented in Puzzle 120 are taken from recordings on the Naxos and Hat Hut labels. I think these are the only recordings of the work which are available on CD.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #654 on: 14:16:47, 20-02-2008 »

We see that Mr. Bryn always good with the googling has pounced on little Haydn Wood:


whose hair in the second photograph has come on astonishingly well.

Wood's masterpiece - "Bird of Love Divine" - has already made an appearance as puzzle 78. We must admit we thought extract 119 was quite like early Schoenberg . . .
« Last Edit: 14:19:09, 20-02-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Bryn
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« Reply #655 on: 14:58:12, 20-02-2008 »

116 must be by Heitor Villa-Lobos of Rio de Janeiro.

Must it, richard? If it is, which particular work did you have in mind? It's all there in the clues, and SCGrew is eagerly awaiting further information re. M. Messiaen. Wink
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Bryn
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« Reply #656 on: 16:37:03, 20-02-2008 »

An amplification of an earlier clue regarding Puzzle 118:

The Wagnerian connection was at one time, more pastoral. A falling out with Joséphin is thought to have led to the change.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #657 on: 07:24:43, 21-02-2008 »

From the liner notes to Volkov's recording:
Quote
In 1926 he began composing a Chamber Symphony, but left this project (which seems to have been planned in two movements) unfinished, as a single movement in short score, lacking a coda. That highly interesting fragment was completed and orchestrated by Raskatov (for an ensemble of eighteen players), and was performed and recorded in the 1990s as ‘the Roslavets Chamber Symphony’. However, it was merely the realization of a fascinating abandoned torso.

It was not then realized that there existed a complete—and immensely larger—Chamber Symphony by Roslavets, whose manuscript has emerged subsequently. It was not published until 2005, and its first recording now appears on the present disc. Also scored for eighteen players—nine solo woodwind, two horns, trumpet, piano, string quartet and double bass—this major work, undoubtedly Roslavets’s most important symphonic utterance, was composed between May 1934 and February 1935, not long after he had returned to Moscow from Uzbekistan. It is known that he showed it to Myaskovsky (who was impressed), but he was unsuccessful in securing a performance, which was probably out of the question after the notorious Pravda denunciations of Shostakovich in January 1936.

In other words, the Hyperion recording is of the only completed Chamber Symphony by Ross LaVettes.


We thank Mr. Barrett for this valuable clarification. The Swedish Radio broadcast from which snippet 102 was taken is of a work in one movement, which at the end breaks off abruptly and unemphatically, so we now presume that it is of the unfinished 1926 project.
« Last Edit: 07:37:16, 21-02-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #658 on: 23:11:59, 21-02-2008 »

Very vague thoughts about the outstanding puzzles:

118 whole-tone piano - maybe Hauer? who else used that sort of harmony?
127 early twentieth century orchestral - German perhaps?
129 French song with chamber group - probably Fauré
130 threatening orchestral bass line - side drums at end indicate modernism - Scandinavian?
132 Probably Scarlatti - but there is so much of him - not Bach and not our period
134 not Saint-Saens! (but written in his life-time)
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Bryn
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« Reply #659 on: 23:38:21, 21-02-2008 »

Very vague thoughts about the outstanding puzzles:

118 whole-tone piano - maybe Hauer? who else used that sort of harmony?
127 early twentieth century orchestral - German perhaps?
129 French song with chamber group - probably Fauré
130 threatening orchestral bass line - side drums at end indicate modernism - Scandinavian?
132 Probably Scarlatti - but there is so much of him - not Bach and not our period
134 not Saint-Saens! (but written in his life-time)


118 is most certainly not by Hauer. Debussy used whole-tone, of course, but it is not by him either. The composer had a Scottish connection.

[Error removed - I had originally intended the Scherzo: Over the Pavements as Puzzle 130, and the WAV was still so named on this laptop. Sorry for the inconvenience.]

130 is not Scandinavian. It is by an English composer of International renown.  As mentioned earlier, the work features two soloists, though the title only mentions one, to my knowledge.

127 is not German, and neither is it early 20th Century. The composer was born in Georgia.
« Last Edit: 00:20:21, 22-02-2008 by Bryn » Logged
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