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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #45 on: 23:10:18, 08-02-2008 » |
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I have got into trouble before with this, but I would just like to say one thing... If a GCSE or A level student had submitted 4'33'' for their examination folio they would...... have failed.
But at GCSE and A level (in any subject) we don't want students to think for themselves. We want them to parrot established wisdom. Heaven forbid they should try to do something new. |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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Baz
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« Reply #46 on: 23:30:01, 08-02-2008 » |
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I have got into trouble before with this, but I would just like to say one thing... If a GCSE or A level student had submitted 4'33'' for their examination folio they would...... have failed.
But at GCSE and A level (in any subject) we don't want students to think for themselves. We want them to parrot established wisdom. Heaven forbid they should try to do something new. What - you mean like...FAILING?  |
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autoharp
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« Reply #47 on: 07:12:14, 09-02-2008 » |
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Contrary to the impression, I did not start this thread - it arose from the other thread in response to a comment that a certain file remained silent (and therefore might be 4' 33").
Cage, Silence, p.59 I also agree with W. D. Shirley's view of 4' 33"... ...'consisting entirely of silence, defining the minimum content of a piece of music'. [/quote] 4'33" is not a "silent piece". Shirley is wrong. And it's not accurate to liken a silent file, however humorously, to 4'33". The piece may well have "outlived its usefulness" as I believe Cage once stated, but its purpose is still misinterpreted. It's irrelevant to mention other works simply because of their "notoriety". The comment about Rauschenberg's White paintings is relevant. |
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A
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« Reply #48 on: 08:22:42, 09-02-2008 » |
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I have got into trouble before with this, but I would just like to say one thing... If a GCSE or A level student had submitted 4'33'' for their examination folio they would...... have failed.
But at GCSE and A level (in any subject) we don't want students to think for themselves. We want them to parrot established wisdom. Heaven forbid they should try to do something new. No no, I found great originality in my students' compositions at GCSE and A level, and no we didn't just use the computer, it was pencil and manuscript work . A |
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Well, there you are.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #49 on: 10:10:01, 09-02-2008 » |
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I found great originality in my students' compositions at GCSE and A level, and no we didn't just use the computer, it was pencil and manuscript work .
but A, you've made it clear whenever you've posted about modern music that "great originality" isn't something you place any value on. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #50 on: 10:49:54, 09-02-2008 » |
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The comment about Rauschenberg's White paintings is relevant.
The comment about Rauschenberg's paintings would be relevant if this were a serious discussion of the work of John Cage. However, it's not. Instead it is using one relatively unimportant piece of Cage's that's acquired notoriety to pillory contemporary music as a whole. It's the taxi-driver's argument - if one modern building has caused a scandal, then all modern architecture is rubbish. If one model suffers anorexia, the entire fashion industry is a pack of vicious brutes. It's a peculiarly British kind of argument which you won't see used in other countries. It's what keeps Britain backward. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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autoharp
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« Reply #51 on: 10:55:53, 09-02-2008 » |
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The comment about Rauschenberg's paintings would be relevant if this were a serious discussion of the work of John Cage. However, it's not.
With respect, Reiner, I suggest you re-read this thread. You'll find at least 5 members seriously discussing a work by John Cage. |
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John W
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« Reply #52 on: 13:08:23, 09-02-2008 » |
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I'm continually amazed that any discussions on that vacuous excuse for music are ever considered serious. Cage succeeded in his real purpose, to have arty people take it seriously  |
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C Dish
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« Reply #53 on: 13:20:32, 09-02-2008 » |
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I'm continually amazed that any discussions on that vacuous excuse for music are ever considered serious. Cage succeeded in his real purpose, to have arty people take it seriously I'd rather be the arty person who discusses it than the officious one who briefly pops in to mock everyone without anything to contribute.. |
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inert fig here
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John W
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« Reply #54 on: 13:28:29, 09-02-2008 » |
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Oooh matron. I did contribute. So my contribution is not worthy of discussion? Cage succeeded in his real purpose, to have arty people take it seriously  |
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C Dish
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« Reply #55 on: 13:41:30, 09-02-2008 » |
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Suffice to say I know when someone is mocking me. Good day, "matron"
(another American ignorant asks: what is meant by "matron" here?)
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inert fig here
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #56 on: 13:46:58, 09-02-2008 » |
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The comment about Rauschenberg's paintings would be relevant if this were a serious discussion of the work of John Cage. However, it's not.
With respect, Reiner, I suggest you re-read this thread. You'll find at least 5 members seriously discussing a work by John Cage. And with what have their serious comments have been met? More taxi-driver twaddle It's just a public bear-bating My own view is that it is not worth elevating cheap jibes to the level of "discussion" by answering them with sophistry. "4'33" is no longer a work of music, in the same way that the Tate Bricks aren't scupture - both works have become brickbats, the stock-in-trade of the Richard Littlejohns and Julie Burchills, and stand as an iconic shorthand for all other works their denigrators believe must probably exist and would be even worse. So no serious discussion is possible. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #57 on: 13:48:51, 09-02-2008 » |
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I'm continually amazed that any discussions on that vacuous excuse for music are ever considered serious. Cage succeeded in his real purpose, to have arty people take it seriously We entirely agree with Mr. W. here! It is simply a horrible piece of tomfoolery from one of the monster children. It cannot touch the lives of sensible people. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #58 on: 13:49:49, 09-02-2008 » |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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richard barrett
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« Reply #59 on: 13:52:18, 09-02-2008 » |
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"4'33" is no longer a work of music, in the same way that the Tate Bricks aren't scupture - both works have become brickbats, the stock-in-trade of the Richard Littlejohns and Julie Burchills, and stand as an iconic shorthand for all other works their denigrators believe must probably exist and would be even worse. So no serious discussion is possible. There is much in what you say, Reiner. |
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