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Author Topic: Re: The Cathedral and Church thread  (Read 6312 times)
Kittybriton
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« Reply #285 on: 22:48:37, 15-06-2008 »

I 'ad that Oliver Cromwell in the back of me cab once... nice bloke. Shame abaht the face.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #286 on: 22:51:35, 15-06-2008 »

In St Ives (Cambs) town museum they keep a copy of Cromwell's death-mask. You have to ask behind the desk to have a look.
Also they have a statue of him in the market place. Apparently Peterborough didn't want it though the residents of St Ives are rather proud of him.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #287 on: 13:27:21, 19-06-2008 »

And here is a picture of Exeter Cathedral taken by me from the classic view point where it is regularly photographed for the Western Morning News calendar which my mother kindly provides every year:



The body of the church is Decorated (ie  c1250 to 1350 - there are stone patterns, tracery, at the top of the windows, but the patterns are curly and have not yet  become Perpendicular.)  Either side of the body are two towers from an earlier building with round rather than pointed arches.  The cathedral guide called then Norman.  The international term preferred nowadays by scholars would be Romanesque.

The placing of the towers is unique.  Only Ottery St Mary parish church, about 15 miles away and obviously imitating Exeter, has the same arrangement, with towers over the transepts (ie the side wings of the church.)
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A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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« Reply #288 on: 12:12:07, 20-06-2008 »

And here is the South Tower (out of sight in view above)



The towers survive from the building of 1133.  From the 1270s the church between the towers was rebuilt in the Decorated style.  (Or Second Pointed as it is sometimes called - First Pointed or Early English was the first Gothic style with pointed arches, eg Salisbury Cathedral.)  In Decorated, the tops of the windows have stone patterns, or tracery, as you can see from these six windows on the South side of Exeter  (picture taken from more or less the same spot as the one of the tower above.)  The work on the new building took up to the 1380s, interrupted by the Black Death.



Notice that each window has a different pattern of tracery.  It reminds me of a box of chocolates, Milk Tray or Black Magic: which one of these enticing wrappers shall I choose?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Antheil
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« Reply #289 on: 23:49:13, 21-06-2008 »

Don Basilio mentioned Welsh Chapels.

At the beginning of the Century Wales had 5,000 Chapels for its 2.9 million inhabitants, more than England and Scotland put together.

Now. Everywhere, abandoned Bethanys and Bethesdas; Calfarias and Caersalems; Elims and Ebenezers; Gerazims and Goshens; Moriahs, Sions and Tabernacles are quietly slipping out of sight and into oblivion, their resounding Old Testament names soon to become a forgotten litany.  Gosh, that is positively Dylanesque!!

So here we go into the wonderful classical Temples of the Welsh Chapels,  Icons of the Welsh Valleys and Towns.  Oh Look you, there's lovely Doric!!  Well, he always did a tidy column.

               
       
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #290 on: 08:37:07, 22-06-2008 »

Thank you, antheil.  It seems completely forgotten that protestant non-conformity, which in Wales was social conformity, was a major social and political force in the land, and has now drifted away as anty says.  Charismatic fundamentalism comes in from the USA and Nigeria, but with very different social associations.

All those abanonded chapels - made for a Betjeman poem.  The only thing is, I am deeply unsympathetic to that sort of religion.  But I can still celebrate the passing of a culture that sustained and inspired generations.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
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« Reply #291 on: 15:26:49, 22-06-2008 »

The interior view of Exeter looks like this



Since there is no central tower (there are two at the transepts as in the photos above) the central rib of the vault can go the full length of full height part of the building.  The technical term for the roof is a tiercon vault, the tiercons being the ribs from the top of the capitals to the central rib.

The stone screen, or pulpitum, was completed 1324 and its two altars restored in the early C20.  The organ case is of 1665, ie just after the Restoration of Charles II and the Anglican episcopate.  During the Commonwealth there was a wall on the top of the screen dividing the space into seperate meeting places for Congregationalists and Presbyterians, IIRC. 

To the right of the organ and behind it is the top of the medieval bishop's throne.  You can just make out the medieval glass of the East window at the end of the Chancel.

Here is the pulpitum in close up.  The paintings are C17, but I cannot find out when they were installed.  They always seem right to me.


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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Antheil
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« Reply #292 on: 16:17:42, 22-06-2008 »

But I can still celebrate the passing of a culture that sustained and inspired generations.

I haven’t been to Exeter for a long time Don B so thanks for those pictures.  I am always in awe when I look at the workmanship of our Cathedrals and they did all this without CAD!

Returning to the Chapels, I don't think the culture is quite dead and buried but certainly struggling.    As you say they became the religious and social focal points of  communities and made a huge contribution to Welsh culture, particularly in relation to music (as in the male voice choirs and the wonderfully stirring Hymns that were composed - (the Chapel tradition continuing of course with the rousing Hymn singing that we do at rugby matches!), literature and the Welsh language.  The Chapel was the hub of everyday life and social events.  The Chapel is such a potent symbol of Welsh life and belief as it used to be.  I love them for that reason because they shaped Wales, preserved the language and gave us a great heritage although like you I am unsympathetic to what they preach.

If anyone is interested, Nonconformism in Wales goes back to the early 1700s, and coupled with a distrust of the Church of England Revivalism spread quickly with charismatic preachers such as Christmas  Evans (the so called Bunyan of Wales) and the Baptist Revival and then the Welsh Methodist revival which led to Wales effectively being a Nonconformist country by the mid 19th century.  It was further  fuelled by the last great Revival in 1904 (Evan Roberts)  which led to the disestablishment of the Church of England in Wales by the Welsh Church Act 1914, which created The Church in Wales which is fully independent of both the State and the Church of England

Calvinists, Baptists, Unitarians, Congregationalists,  Methodists, Wesleyans,  Presbyterians and all the other variations had their Chapels.  I’m no Methodist or Evangelist  but I guess they must have been exhilarating times for those involved.

The Evan Roberts Revival spread as well to Patagonia. and a total of 17 Welsh chapels were constructed in the Chubut valley alone.  I don’t know how many people know of the Welsh Patagonians but here is Bethel Chapel at the foot of The Andes.

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time_is_now
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« Reply #293 on: 18:59:38, 22-06-2008 »

Well normally I'd post it elsewhere (the Poetry Appreciation thread) but it seemed so apt...
This one doesn't seem unapt either (apologies if we've had it before).


An Arundel Tomb

Side by side, their faces blurred,
The earl and countess lie in stone,
Their proper habits vaguely shown
As jointed armour, stiffened pleat,
And that faint hint of the absurd -
The little dogs under their feet.

Such plainness of the pre-baroque
Hardly involves the eye, until
It meets his left-hand gauntlet, still
Clasped empty in the other; and
One sees, with a sharp tender shock,
His hand withdrawn, holding her hand.

They would not think to lie so long.
Such faithfulness in effigy
Was just a detail friends would see:
A sculptor's sweet commissioned grace
Thrown off in helping to prolong
The Latin names around the base.

They would not guess how early in
Their supine stationary voyage
The air would change to soundless damage,
Turn the old tenantry away;
How soon succeeding eyes begin
To look, not read. Rigidly, they

Persisted, linked, through lengths and breadths
Of time. Snow fell, undated. Light
Each summer thronged the glass. A bright
Litter of birdcalls strewed the same
Bone-riddled ground. And up the paths
The endless altered people came,

Washing at their identity.
Now, helpless in the hollow of
An unarmorial age, a trough
Of smoke in slow suspended skeins
Above their scrap of history,
Only an attitude remains:

Time has transfigured them into
Untruth. The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be
Their final blazon, and to prove
Our almost-instinct almost true:
What will survive of us is love.


'They would not think to lie so long' is pretty good on HIP! 'Washing at ... identity' indeed.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #294 on: 20:58:26, 22-06-2008 »

Larkin was such a contrary old f**** that really is very touching indeed.

Here is a tomb from Exeter Cathedral, nothing like as moving



This is Bishop Oldham (died 1515 a generation before the baloon went up), from the town now in Greater Manchester, and indeed founder of Manchester Grammar School and joint founder of Corpus Christi College Oxford.

Love the gloves.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #295 on: 12:05:41, 26-06-2008 »

I visited Begbroke near Blenheim in Oxfordshire this week.  Here is the church, seen through the hedge



The Vicar of Begbroke and his wife are walking down the path behind the greenery.  This is real Philip Larkin Church Crawling stuff.

Here is the door.  The arch is Romaneque (or Norman to use the old fashioned chauvinistic art historical term) and was cruelly re-cut by the Victorians



Then I pushed the door open...
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Antheil
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« Reply #296 on: 17:39:19, 26-06-2008 »

I visited Begbroke near Blenheim in Oxfordshire this week. 

Here is the door. 

Then I pushed the door open...

But happened then Don Basilio?  I've been on tenterhooks all day wondering what you'd found when you opened the door!!!
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #297 on: 18:08:29, 26-06-2008 »

... and the overwhelming impression was the smell.  If the atmosphere is not heavy with incense in a church, then I think it ought to have the wonderful, indescribable smell of an English parish church, as here, made up I imagine by generations of damp Prayer Books.

The interior was far from dank and gloomy however:



The chancel arch is re-cut Romanesque, like the doorway.  The C20 glass in the Romanesque East window shows St Michael, the patron saint of the church.

I was very impressed by the altar arrangements.  Often a free standing altar looks silly in a country church, with an old Victorian altar piece still in position on the East wall.  The altar looked just right here: properly the centre of activity, with no distraction and its floral damask altar cloth set off by the nice clean whitewash of the wall.  Full marks from me.  (I told the vicar so - being patronised by me is one of the many hazards of being an Anglican clergy person.)
« Last Edit: 18:36:48, 26-06-2008 by Don Basilio » Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #298 on: 18:21:18, 26-06-2008 »

And if I turned 180 degrees and looked West



you see what would have been the only imagery in the C18, the ten commandments and, larger than any religious image, the royal arms of King George. Thank heavens Anglicans got rid of that sort of stuff over a hundred years ago.

Notice the medieval roof timbers.
« Last Edit: 18:23:25, 26-06-2008 by Don Basilio » Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
martle
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« Reply #299 on: 18:22:38, 26-06-2008 »

Don, um, you might want to edit your photos there...   Wink
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