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Author Topic: Re: The Cathedral and Church thread  (Read 6312 times)
Don Basilio
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« Reply #315 on: 21:23:55, 29-06-2008 »

Well I agree Don B.  So many Churches and Cathedrals are a mish-mash of styles.  Are there any unadultereated examples?

Salisbury, minus the spire. Exeter minus the East window and the towers.

Quote
Don B, If we applied the Sydney Grew scale of ranking then Llandaff would not be the Top Ranking Anglican 'Bach', so to speak, more one of Syd's 'Shoskapobitch' third raters!  Cheesy  I just have to say, it doesn't do it for me that Epstein.  Each to their own though.

That's fine.  The four ancient Welsh cathedrals were St Asaph (in a village smaller than Budleigh Salterton, I love it and I have been there), Bangor (which I have seen and does not seem memorable for anything except having had Aled Jones as a choirboy), Llandaff and St Davids (which I must get to see).  Brecon and St Woolos,Newport were made cathedrals in the C20 to cope with population growth.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
David_Underdown
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« Reply #316 on: 17:00:17, 30-06-2008 »

As it happens I was in Llandaff on Saturday for ordinations (my mother was amongst those being deaconed).  The Majestis does indeed contain a divison of the organ, but since a lightning strike Easter before last the organ has been out of action, and there's currently a big fundraising push to build an entirely new organ 9I'm not quite sure what the implications for the pipes in the Majestis are).

I don't particularly object to the Majestis, and apparently my Dad, the first time he went into the Cathedral (having been brought up a good Welsh congregationlist) was so overwhelmed by the comparitively vast scale (though fairly small by cathedral standards) that he managed to overlook it entirely.

The other modern addition is the Welch Regiment chapel to the north of the nave.
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David
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« Reply #317 on: 17:53:22, 30-06-2008 »

I intend, at some point, to have something intelligent to say or pictures to post on this thread. But until that point, you'll have to settle for this peculiar posting.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #318 on: 09:55:44, 01-07-2008 »

Congratulations to your mum, David.

hh, only in America.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
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« Reply #319 on: 09:53:03, 02-07-2008 »

I'll come off the fence and say from what I've seen and heard I do like the Epstein Christ at Llandaff.

In which case we have the embarrassing situation that the three who like it (me, David, George) are all guys

and the three who don't (Antheil, Mort, Kitty) are all dolls.

Does this say something about it?
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George Garnett
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« Reply #320 on: 12:47:10, 02-07-2008 »

Well I agree Don B.  So many Churches and Cathedrals are a mish-mash of styles.  Are there any unadulterated examples?

Salisbury, minus the spire. Exeter minus the East window and the towers.

A nod's as good as a wink, Don B. I've put out a contract with some friends of mine who have form in this kind of thing if you get my drift. You might want to keep your eyes open for news reports of some of those unfortunate 'lightning strikes' that seem to hit our cathedrals so unexpectedly. I don't think you will be disappointed.

The lads have already put a bit of assault work in on this mock up of Salisbury without the spire. Looks much tidier.

« Last Edit: 12:56:14, 02-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Antheil
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« Reply #321 on: 14:58:30, 12-07-2008 »

I don't want to derail the Mahler 8 thread so am posting here.  On the Mahler thread Don Basilio said he considered Martin Warner of St. Pauls one of the brightest balls in the C of E.

I just wondered Don, why you think that?  I must admit I have read some of his Sermons online and been most impressed at his understanding and grasp of life today, and there was his about that chap wanting to be unbaptised which was extremely interesting but is there some other reason for your praise of him?  Is he destined for Higher Things?

BTW, anyone else reading this, the Epstein Christ in Majesty/George Pace arch at Llandaff, three votes for (male) and three against (female).  Is this significant gender-wise?  Anyone else want to pitch in?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #322 on: 15:23:12, 12-07-2008 »

I first came accros Martin Warner when he was Administrator of the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham and heard him give the address before the Saturday Evening Procession with statue round the grounds.  He spoke without notes and a Bible in his hand.  He quoted the recently released Bridget Jones film in which one character (probably Colin Firth) said "I love you just as you are."  Father Martin repeated this several times to indicate this is God's love for us, and its so true.  We try to kid ourselves and those we admire that we are different from what we are, but God knows and still loves us.  (Which is why, by the way, to say you are a "real person" is self delusion, but let it pass.)

Walsingham only a generation ago was regarded as beyond the pale catholic - and indeed does not allow women priests to celebrate mass there.

I was amazed he was made Canon of St Paul's, only a generation ago, and indeed at times now, a by-word for state religion, with a woman canon in place (the lovely "I Love" Lucy Winkett.)

When he came to preach at our church I saw him receive communion when a woman had presided at mass.

I have three times attended the Sunday when the perform the Nelson Mass.  The other two preachers I heard did amateur musicology.  Canon Warner related the gospel reading, the human condition and the music together.

And he has wonderful liturgical style.  I don't mean he is a fussy old show off.  When he presides at a said eucharist in that vast space under the dome, with an unknown congregation of strangers and visitors, he appears completely unfazed, but what he does and says is completely un-self conscious and authoritative without being pompous or bossy.

I have a lot of time for him: he is too good to be lost in all the admin and politics that bishops, bless them, have to be involved in.

  Martin on left, Rowan on right.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
George Garnett
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« Reply #323 on: 15:26:11, 12-07-2008 »

BTW, anyone else reading this, the Epstein Christ in Majesty/George Pace arch at Llandaff, three votes for (male) and three against (female).  Is this significant gender-wise?  Anyone else want to pitch in?

Just a note for the Returning Officer. I actually swung both ways or possibly had an admirably nuanced critical engagement with the thing (whichever impresses you the more). I like the Epstein but loathe the GP arch thing it is on. So that's half a vote each way. Hedging my bets or indecisive would be other descriptions.   
« Last Edit: 15:27:48, 12-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Antheil
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« Reply #324 on: 16:14:34, 12-07-2008 »

BTW, anyone else reading this, the Epstein Christ in Majesty/George Pace arch at Llandaff, three votes for (male) and three against (female).  Is this significant gender-wise?  Anyone else want to pitch in?

Quote
Just a note for the Returning Officer. I actually swung both ways or possibly had an admirably nuanced critical engagement with the thing (whichever impresses you the more)

I like the Epstein but loathe the GP arch thing it is on. So that's half a vote each way. Hedging my bets or indecisive would be other descriptions.   
[/quote]

I will think about what impresses me most George.  It's the arch that bothers me as well.

Don B.  I remember my one and only trip to Walsingham with fondness.

Thank you for that information about Martin Warner, very informative.  I'll read up on him a bit more

Why cannot I work out this quote thingy?



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Don Basilio
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« Reply #325 on: 16:17:58, 12-07-2008 »

OK, I'll split my vote and go with George - love the Epstein, loathe the arch.  So we reach a consensus.

In fact I must say I hadn't noticed the arch in its own right.

I think it needs to be seen in reality.  Come in, David U.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Antheil
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« Reply #326 on: 16:25:01, 12-07-2008 »

OK, I'll split my vote and go with George - love the Epstein, loathe the arch.  So we reach a consensus.

In fact I must say I hadn't noticed the arch in its own right.

I think it needs to be seen in reality.  Come in, David U.

Don Basilio,

Call me a Feminist with cropped hair in Doc Martens (please!) but that Arch is just so masculine a statement is it not?  It does not belong there.  It actually impinges on The Majesty of Christ, and it seems it's the concrete arch, not the Epstein that is important.  Well, that's how it seems to me.  Male Ego against Female Spiritual.
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Kittybriton
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« Reply #327 on: 21:52:25, 12-07-2008 »

I'll come off the fence and say from what I've seen and heard I do like the Epstein Christ at Llandaff.

In which case we have the embarrassing situation that the three who like it (me, David, George) are all guys

and the three who don't (Antheil, Mort, Kitty) are all dolls.

Does this say something about it?

It's the oldest, established, permanent floating rood screen in Llandaff
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #328 on: 22:06:28, 12-07-2008 »

Anty, I'd forgotten, you have actually seen it and didn't like it.  Fair enough.

And I got the Guys and Dolls reference, thanks, kitty.  Nice one.  Or Nicely Nicely one.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #329 on: 22:30:40, 12-07-2008 »

The restoration was carried out by George Pace and Jacob Epstein created the figure of Christ in Majesty which is suspended above the nave on a concrete arch designed by George Pace.

Now here's a strange thing. I have long had a hearty dislike of the clunky 1970s choir stalls in St Albans Abbey. I can't find a picture on the web but, for those who know it, I mean the ones in the nave not the (IMHO) splendid ones in the quire itself. To my great pleasure they are being removed and replaced as part of the Dean's reconfiguring of the altar area in the nave to make it more of a theatrical spectacle more appropriately inclusive for the Solemn Dance of the Eucharist.

I only discovered talking to someone this evening after a fine concert there (thank you St Albans Bach Choir, you're on a roll ) that these choir stalls are also by this chap George Pace.

Come on Llandaff. Your turn now. If St Albans can do it, time to get the dynamite on that concrete arch of yours.
« Last Edit: 22:34:38, 12-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
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