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Author Topic: Re: The Cathedral and Church thread  (Read 6312 times)
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #390 on: 19:39:05, 23-08-2008 »

Just to finish off on Saint Cross, Winchester, here is the vue generale of the interior, with that eagle with a possible parrot's head on the right.


Thanks for all the St Cross photos, DB.  Smiley
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Kittybriton
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« Reply #391 on: 21:34:10, 23-08-2008 »

I think the oldest ones are build in XXII century.
I think you mean, they were built in the XII century (12th century. XXII century would be the 22nd century, in which I'm sure a small number of very fine churches will be built but we'll have to wait and see). Now that I come to think of it, The Doctor doesn't seem to have shown much interest in architecture except for that extraordinary library...
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #392 on: 22:22:36, 23-08-2008 »

Now I recall that my friend told me that catholic churches became Anglican, though he called it different. This is why I did not know. I thought for some reason that they are protestant churches. I seems to think that people here call it Protestant church, but I might be wrong.

Some Anglicans, and particularly in the Church of Ireland, would say they are definitely protestant.  Here in England some Anglicans, like me, are only to keen to say we are catholic-without-the-Pope. 

So as far as Ireland goes, you are probably right.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #393 on: 22:34:18, 23-08-2008 »

Thanks for all the St Cross photos, DB.  Smiley

Don't mention it, IGI.  Sorry if you were put off by my obsession with parrots.

Do you get your students to learn poetry by heart,  ie parrot fashion?  The other half and I were discussing this recently.  He remembers learning poetry by heart (at Peter Symonds), while I can only remember learning The Lake Isle of Inisfree on one occasion.

I only think I  appreciate poetry when I can recite it by heart.
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Lady_DoverHyphenSole
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« Reply #394 on: 23:38:26, 23-08-2008 »

Thanks for the pictures of St Woolas, Don B. I have a vague personal connection with the place, as my step-grandfather was a carpenter by trade, and made a number of the wooden components for the cathedral. My stepfather still has a fine pair of wooden candlesticks his father made from a couple of offcuts.

My church is a large suburban Victorian pile of a place, made from the local very soft stone, so the walls crumble at any opportunity  Sad Lord_DHS also sings CE in the choir of another church just a couple of miles down the road; this church dates back to Norman times and has beautiful Pre-Raphaelite stained-glass windows. Pictures to follow at some point in the future, if I can work out how to take half-decent pictures  Lips sealed
« Last Edit: 23:42:28, 23-08-2008 by Lady_DoverHyphenSole » Logged

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Don Basilio
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« Reply #395 on: 08:27:08, 24-08-2008 »

O, do let me see the Victorian pile, Lady D.  I love playing guess the architect.

Meanwhile here is my shaky closeup of the choir of St Woolos (or St Woolos's as some of you might wish)

The grey and pink design, visible in every photo so far, is by John Piper (husband of Britten's librettist and chum of John Betjeman.)  The extension itself is early '60s.  I quite like it.

The church trotting friend who took me there and myself were not impressed by the light stained oak.  I'm sure Lady D's step-grandfather's carpentry is exquisite, but it could have done with a darker stain.  Not chocolate French polish dark, but not something looking as though it has heard Scandinavian furniture is very smart, but doesn't know anything more about it than the colouring.  Light stained oak has been a specialty of the more timid reorderings in churches since the '50s.  There is no understanding that domestic and public spaces require different styles of furnishing.

In  a few years, the light fittings may have gained period charm.  I hope so.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #396 on: 09:37:33, 25-08-2008 »



We have this church. It is called St. Mary's church. It is very small and there is a Nun convent next to it. Sisters used to teach children, but not anymore.
The street there is so nice.
« Last Edit: 09:44:08, 25-08-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Don Basilio
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« Reply #397 on: 09:47:45, 25-08-2008 »

I'll bet a lucky leprechaun that that one is Roman Catholic.  The gold box behind the altar looks like a tabernacle - a safe for keeping the consecrated bread of the eucharist.  Church of Ireland churches would never do that (Church of England ones might - St Cross does in a side chapel.) 

There is what looks like a statue of Mary behind the side altar on the left.  Again, we have a statue of Mary in an identical position in my Church of England church, but it would never be in the Church of Ireland.

And there is possibly a confessional box on the right.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #398 on: 09:51:29, 25-08-2008 »

Yes, this one is a catholic. I know that. I remembered since the last time we talked that the St Nickolals church is Anglican. I am passing by, but I don't notice things that I don't know.
I don't know if there is a Presbeterian church here too.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #399 on: 10:11:22, 25-08-2008 »

Meanwhile, back in Wales, I expect some of you have been wondering who is Saint Woolos?  Well if you are all very good I will tell you. 

Woolos is the English form of the Welsh name Gwynllyw, as that spelling is unpronounceable in English.  Here he is in a stained glass window in the cathedral looking like a member of the chorus in Camelot;



He is flanked by his son St Cadoc (dressed as a bishop and with his name in Welsh spelling?) and his wife St Gwladys.

I'm afraid I am reminded irresistibly of this quote from Very Good, Jeeves

“Listen, Bertie,” said Aunt Dahlia earnestly, “I’m an older woman than you are – well you know what I mean – and I can tell you a thing or two.  And one of them is that no good can come of association with anything labelled Gwladys or Ysobel or Ethyl or Mabelle or Kathryn.  But particularly Gwladys.”
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
trained-pianist
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« Reply #400 on: 10:37:03, 25-08-2008 »

Welsh words are not so diffecult for me to say.
I even got double L kind of half good.

The words are closer to old Russian which noone knows now. May be sort of. I don't really know. That is my feeling.
Names sound like something from legends about old Russia.
I did not know anyone in Wales and many things passed me by. 

It is a beautiful church.
Wodos is dressed in similar cloths with Russian princess of old.

My knowledge of old Russian stories and legends is limited, but I can find out from people who know better.

« Last Edit: 13:09:24, 25-08-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Antheil
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« Reply #401 on: 11:35:54, 25-08-2008 »

King Gwynllyw was a warrior king and a bandit and cattle rustler.  He wanted to marry Princess Gwladys, daughter of King Brychan of Brecknock.  When Brychan refused permission he set out with 300 men and kidnapped her.

After the birth of his eldest son, he went on a wild celebratory raid on Gwent with his fearless warriors. Among other livestock, he stole the cow of St. Tathyw of Caerwent who promptly arrived at the Royal Court of Gwynllwg and demanded it back. The King would not let the two go however, until Tathyw had baptised his newborn son into the Christian faith. In later life, Gwynllyw had a dream in which the God appeared and told him he would find a valuable white oxen on Stow Hill. Having found the beast the next day, the King was so impressed that he allowed his son, St. Cadog to convert him to Christianity. He then founded the Church of St. Mary (St. Woolos' Cathedral, Newport) where the ox was found. Gwynllyw later was widowed and married Gwladys' sister, Ceingar and became father of St. Cynidr of Glasbury.   One of his brothers was St. Petroc.

A series of miracles were attributed to him. His fountain healed those who drank from it and angels were seen near his tomb. Later miracles included the protection of a bard from flood waters, and the destruction of a Viking fleet at sea after they plundered the church which was full of rich offerings made to the saint. The defeat of King Harold Godwinson at the Battle of Hastings was attributed to the vengeance of Saint Gwynllyw because he and his troops had plundered Gwynllyw's church while attacking the nearby kingdom of Gwent

His son, St. Cadog, is one of the greatest of Welsh Saints.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #402 on: 12:58:45, 25-08-2008 »

It is very interesting. Thank you Antheil and don Basilio.

My history loving friend had just dropped by, but he was in a hurry. He is very interested.
He was rushing to get his cantata to the printer. He has a cantata in Irish and Italian. He is also busy with some arrangements.

He said that he may come back again.


I will look through my posters to find out the name of a big church rebuilt by turkish workers.
Stalin destroyed it and I used to swim in  a swiming pool that was left.
« Last Edit: 14:09:44, 25-08-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Don Basilio
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« Reply #403 on: 13:01:45, 25-08-2008 »

Thank you, Antheil, that's great.  I had been told the story about the ox, but I have never seen the story in print.  I am told there is a modern statue of an ox in the shopping centre at Newport to commemorate it.

I did not know the other details.  I can only add a bit of gossip from the Oxford Book of Saints.

Gwynllw and Gwladys used to stand in the River Usk, presumably the site of the present Newport docks, during the night reciting psalms, like good Celtic saints.  They walked to and from the river in the nude.  Their son, St Cadoc, disapproved of mixed skinny dipping, even by a married couple in indulging in religious exercise, and persuaded them to seperate.

Cadoc isn't spelt Cadoc in the window, is it anty?  Any comments?
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Antheil
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« Reply #404 on: 13:59:10, 25-08-2008 »

Don Basilio, Cadog, Cadoc, Cattwg, just all variations of spelling.  Also, forgot to say that St. Gwynllyw is the Patron Saint of pirates as he was a bit of a marauder!

St. Cadog is often pictured with a pig at his feet and holding a mouse.  There is a modern icon of him (I think in Brecon?) of him and a mouse.  The Church in Wales has an official iconographer btw.

After completing his education he became a wandering hermit in Penychen, the Kingdom of his uncle, Pawl. His presence was reported to the King by a swineherd whose pigs, Cadog had disturbed. King Pawl presented his nephew with the valley where these pigs fed, and here the young saint built his famous monastery of Llancarfan,  Cadog stayed there for many years but eventually he left for Ireland to study under Carthagh at Saighir.

When Cadog eventually returned to Wales he had several new followers, including his great friend, St. Finian. They settled at Llanspyddid in Brecknock near his maternal grandfather, King Brychan. While at Llanspyddid, a great famine raged in the countryside around, but Cadog saved his followers from starvation by observing a mouse which led him to a secret grain store. One day while he sat with his books in his cell, a white mouse ran suddenly onto the table from a hole in the wall and put down a grain of corn. Cadog tied a white thread to the foot of the mouse and later followed the thread to a cellar where he found an abandoned subterranean granary full of dried corn and wheat.

Cadog settled in Brittany for a while and made pilgrimages to Rome and Jerusalem.  When he was away the Synod at Llandewi Brefi made St. David Archbishop of Wales and Cadog was not best pleased!  If it were not for his travels he may have been Patron Saint of Wales. 

Llancarfan Church, mainly 12th century but has 9th century cross inside.  The weathervane is a golden hind because Cadog once sheltered one from hunters in his cell.



This is St. Cadog's well at Isle de Cado in Brittany.  He founded a Monastery and built an Oratory.  He also founded a Monastery in Scotland at Cambuslang.


« Last Edit: 14:13:11, 25-08-2008 by Antheil » Logged

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