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Author Topic: The Waffle Thread  (Read 38838 times)
trained-pianist
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« Reply #1410 on: 21:48:37, 16-03-2007 »

Yes, I played one sonata not long ago. It is very difficult. Brahms is very difficult for piano. I played one violin sonata too and it was difficult. May be for better pianists it is easier (real concert pianists). May be it is easy for Ian.
Brahms piano quintet is very difficult. Brahms was such a good pianist. Schumann's piano quintet much easier. It is safer to choose to play Schumann piano quintet.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1411 on: 22:09:52, 16-03-2007 »

Yes, I played one sonata not long ago. It is very difficult. Brahms is very difficult for piano. I played one violin sonata too and it was difficult. May be for better pianists it is easier (real concert pianists). May be it is easy for Ian.
Brahms piano quintet is very difficult. Brahms was such a good pianist. Schumann's piano quintet much easier. It is safer to choose to play Schumann piano quintet.

Some people claim that Brahms was 'unpianistic', but I don't agree at all. Brahms knew how to exploit physical awkwardness to create expressive tension. That's why his pieces are often harder than they sound (opposite situation to that with Liszt, say). Some parts of the Second Piano Concerto (e.g. the unpedalled staccato writing near the end of the exposition, or the legato octaves in the trio of the second movement) are really quite taxing to play. But Brahms's piano writing in general, including in the chamber music, presents a pretty meaty use of the instrument, more so than in most other chamber music up until that time.

Here is a description of Brahms's own playing from Richard Specht:

'It is certain that I never heard anyone else play Brahms’s piano music as its creator played it himself, not even Ignaz Brüll, the interpreter from whom of all others he liked to hear his new works. The whole man was in the performance – and the whole work too: you possessed it from that moment, irrevocably. His playing, for all its reticence, was filled with song, there was in it a searching, a gliding of light and flitting of shadows, a flaring and burning out, a restrained masculine feeling and a self-forgetful, romantic passion such as I have never experienced elsewhere. He always played as if he were alone; he forgot his public entirely, sank into himself, gained new knowledge of his own tones in re-creating them, was lost to himself and to others. It was exactly the interpretation that fitted the music, the playing that characterized the unique personality of Johannes Brahms: frequently rugged and as it were ambling – “take it easy” was his most common tempo indication at rehearsals – then tender again and stealthy, and yet again soaring up into high flights, as if intoxicated with an interior light.'

Richard Specht, Johannes Brahms, translated Eric Blom (London: Dent, 1930), pp. 75-78.
« Last Edit: 22:14:24, 16-03-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
trained-pianist
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« Reply #1412 on: 22:20:41, 16-03-2007 »

Thank you Ian for the quote. I did not know that. I read some memories of Clara Schumann daughter about Brahms' piano lessons that she had with him.
I don't think his music is unpianistic. He uses big chords and the sound has to be rather strong. I think he is more suited for men pianists. I don't want to say that women cannot play it. His writing is complex, but rewarding. I love the rich sound, sometimes hungarian emotions in it. I love it. His concertos are out of rich for me now.
I am better in Mozart, Schumann, Beethoven reperoire, though I am playing Rachmaninov now. Brahms music is very intense. Intermezzos could be easier to play.
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MabelJane
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« Reply #1413 on: 22:21:32, 16-03-2007 »

Tell me about yourself, MabelJane. How is your daughter? Are you doing anything with music?
I'm a teacher, t-p, in a small primary school in a deprived area. I have 3 age groups in my class! Years 1, 2 and 3! Aged 5-8. Only a handful of the Y1s. I love my class - they're lovely kids - well, most of them! Awful backgrounds some of them (eg  close relatives in prison, drug abuse by parents etc) but I work with a great team of teachers and assistants. Can't give too many details but I was doing supply teaching in several local primary schools and I prefer teaching where I am now (mainly just mornings - I job-share) to some of the "posh" primary schools at the top of the league tables.
The only music I do is in school now, singing. No instrumental lessons there unfortunately as the parents can't afford even subsidised lessons. I should start up recorder lessons I suppose but I'm quite busy enough at the moment. And there's the problem with school recorders that germs can be spread...eeeuuurrrgh that's just brought back memories of having to borrow a school recorder once when I was about 12 and it was dipped into a foul-tasting disinfectant first!
As for my daughter, she's learning flute as well as piano and singing. She's also horse-riding and swimming and doing gymnastics... but not all at once! Makes me tired just watching her! Oh, and she's just joined the school girls' football team - despite the fact she's a  tiny  10 year old.
Good job this is the waffle thread!
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1414 on: 22:23:43, 16-03-2007 »

You might like this quote from Eugenie Schumann (daughter of Clara), which reveals something about changing approaches to Bach in the nineteenth century:

'In any work by Bach, Brahms would occasionally permit an emphatic lifting of the notes (portamento), but never a staccato. ‘You must not play Bach staccato,’ he said to me. ‘But Mamma sometimes uses a staccato in Bach,’ I demurred. Then he replied, ‘Your mother’s youth goes back to a time when it was the fashion to use staccatos in Bach, and she has retained them in a few cases.’

Eugenie Schumann, The Schumanns and Johannes Brahms: The Memoirs of Eugenie Schumann, translated Marie Busch (New York, 1927), p. 145.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
trained-pianist
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« Reply #1415 on: 22:40:25, 16-03-2007 »

I am answering both of you on this post. First Ian, I don't like short staccato in principal. I usually reserve the short one for contemporary music. My teacher insisted on portamento kind of touch. It is interesting that there was a change in piano style in Brahms time. I read about how Brahms made Eugine play different exercises (scales) in triplets and other rhythms. On the picture Brahms hand looks high and he has weight behind his hand. It must of sound really something. I love that first quote. It is very poetic. The most difficult thing is to concentrate on stage and not get distracted. I did not have this problem before while young.
Ian Wilson is in charge in Sligo. Contemporary musicians are very close circle in Ireland. I will try to come to Dublin to hear you. Who is organizing the festival? I think Ireland is a small place and there are limited finances. There is Concorde ensemble and there is Crash that I heard.

JabelJane. There are many deprived children here. It is strange because there was a boom in the country for number of years, but the gap between rich and poor is growing. The richer children are spoiled. I admire how you can teach so many children. I have some cheeky young ones, but it is one at a time. It is difficult to be with people who are too ambitious and competative.
I like your posts very much.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #1416 on: 22:45:04, 16-03-2007 »

Mr Pace
It appears that we have be organising a small delegation to hear you play at the end of April...
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1417 on: 22:48:29, 16-03-2007 »

Oi, you pianists, this is supposed to be waffle. What's all this performance practice discussion then?  Roll Eyes
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1418 on: 22:49:37, 16-03-2007 »

Oi, you pianists, this is supposed to be waffle. What's all this performance practice discussion then?  Roll Eyes

You don't think it's possible to waffle about performance practice?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Andy D
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« Reply #1419 on: 22:59:52, 16-03-2007 »

Mr Pace
It appears that we have be organising a small delegation to hear you play at the end of April...

where's IP playing hh?
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Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« Reply #1420 on: 23:00:59, 16-03-2007 »


M-J, I have a great deal of respect for you. Given the discussion elsewhere regarding the present level of support for the arts, these children are receiving something that will enrich their lives whether they ever know or realize it, and for some, might even provide a key to a better quality of life.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #1421 on: 23:03:03, 16-03-2007 »

I am answering both of you on this post. First Ian, I don't like short staccato in principal. I usually reserve the short one for contemporary music. My teacher insisted on portamento kind of touch.

Very Russian indeed! Wink
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
A
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« Reply #1422 on: 23:15:27, 16-03-2007 »

Oi, you pianists, this is supposed to be waffle. What's all this performance practice discussion then?  Roll Eyes

Practice? I know the word but I have forgotten what it means ollie  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

A
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1423 on: 23:18:53, 16-03-2007 »

You don't think it's possible to waffle about performance practice?
I think we've established quite clearly that it's possible... Wink
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MabelJane
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« Reply #1424 on: 23:25:05, 16-03-2007 »

Thanks t-p and kittyb. It is a TEAM effort though - I couldn't cope without my wonderful teaching  assistants. There are 31 in the class with 3 statemented and lots more with less serious special educational needs - mainly they're a couple of years behind in their academic ability due to depirved upbringing - eg no books at home; in fact, no conversation for many of them, let alone anything else more stimulating! Sad isn't it. Lots of very young, teenage mums on the estate; in less than 10 years time, some of my 6 year old girls could well be mums themselves...shocking thought.
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